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Author Topic: Do oil and oil filter brand really matter to the life of an engine? Back to Topics
Alexi7

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 7:31:43 AM

My brother has gone with Wal-Mart/Jiffy-Lube oil changes for his '97 Accord EX since Day One and that motor just turned 330,000 miles.

I, on the other hand, fuss over my cars with Mobil 1/Castrol Syntech and K&N or Bosch filters with the same results in engine longevity.

Sometimes I feel like it's much ado about nothing.
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bluenvoy
Champion Author Nashville

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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2013 9:45:52 AM

I agree, changing oil is more important than the brand.
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dakine
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2013 9:44:48 AM

Not as much as the frequency of changing your oil.
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WES03
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Message Posted: Mar 19, 2013 9:31:42 AM

Not with name brands. Not sure about others.
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pacecar68
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Mar 18, 2013 9:48:17 PM

no. change the oil often, drive gently, and the engine will outlast the rest of the vehicle.
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jonjon57
Champion Author Raleigh

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Message Posted: Mar 18, 2013 9:31:47 PM

No
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gascomber
Veteran Author Durham

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Message Posted: Mar 18, 2013 9:14:42 PM

idk
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dasAuto
Champion Author Saskatchewan

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Message Posted: Mar 18, 2013 6:10:19 PM

I personally believe that quality fluids make all the difference in the longevity of an engine. Cheap is cheap for a reason. Then again, I too fuss over my vehicle. Sorta a family thing I am finding out.
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BartandLisa
Champion Author Newfoundland

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Message Posted: Mar 18, 2013 5:09:32 PM

I have used many brands over about 30 years but the frequency of changes is probably more important. Always change both oil and filter and avoid cheap no-name stuff. I have never had an engine problem. Those that I have seen fail by other people were pushed too long between changes
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speedy700
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2013 1:20:41 PM

Synthetics might help in turbo engines or if the mileage between changes is extensive, otherwise it might not make a difference. Personally I use conventional oil and just change oil every 5000 miles.
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Snowchoux
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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2013 12:28:17 PM

Six of one, half dozen of another. I don't know.
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DoctorOH
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Message Posted: Feb 2, 2013 12:01:19 AM

yes
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 9:40:15 PM

Houckster, I'm intrigued by your experience with the Amsoil filter and the long-term lubricant. Do you use Redline, or Amsoil, and why? And have you done this from original purchase on that Ranger?

If I adopted this, it would be in an 09 Sienna XLE AWD with 65K on it. That 4.5 mpg increase is very tantalizing.

I'll guess you maintain it yourself. I remember reading somewhere that this is prudent, because you don't want to risk some grease monkey throwing away your $150 filter and replacing it with some Walmart rip-off!

Edit: Doing a bit of searching on Amsoil, came across this endorsement at a car maintenance forum:

the editor had one thing right that AMSOIL is the best oil for performance. I did a little figuring since my last post . Our XL oils works out to $2.15 per quart per 3000 miles , it is a 10 k oil change. Our premium oils or our 25k miles works out to around $1.03 per quart per 3000 miles . 3 oil changes compared to our XL oil change, or 8 oil changes compared to our Premium or 25k oils. Do the math AMSOIL is cheaper per oil change and there is no better protection out there . ANy further question feel free to contact us at www.lubedealer.com/parhamsynthetics. oh yeh those prices are delivered to your front door and you will have a servicing dealer that can help you with any further questions or concerns you may have . Thanks and move up to AMSOIL.

I assume your ringing endorsement is for their top-tier product.

[Edited by: traffic cop at 2/1/2013 9:50:09 PM EST]
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GrumpyCat
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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 2:14:55 PM

Most motor oils are very very good these days. Follow the specs provided by your engine manufacturer and you will be fine.

Don't go off pretending you know better than your engine manufacturer. If they say 10,000 miles with the specified oil then there is a huge safety factor already applied.

Synthetic or refined, makes no difference. Manufacturer makes more difference. Just make sure it meets the specs your engine requires.

"Synthetic" is not a performance specification. Its about as relevant as whether a red car goes faster than a blue car. Synthetic can be better but just because it is synthetic doesn't mean it is as good as a good refined oil.
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Vin63
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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2013 10:15:27 AM

Having dyno'd countless engines, I've seen a few fiber/paperboard end cap oil filters collapse and starve the oil system. I prefer to use metal constructed filters.
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BartandLisa
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 8:08:22 PM

Not so much the brand as the frequency and schedule on which it is changed. Better safer than sorrier. I avoid cheaper or no-name products but have no particular affinity for a particular brand. I always change both oil and filter every 5000 or 6 months, whichever is less and have never had an engine problem.
(Some were push rod engines which could take more abuse than OHC engines, but still...)
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:27:11 PM

MERTIEMAN writes: Don't change either and see what actually happens to your engine. I saw one that went over 60,000 miles that had never been changed and it looked like someone had poured hot tar all over the valves and all internal parts of the engine. It blew it up, literally.
______
If this comment refers to me, then it's simply wrong. The lubricant I use, and it's not oil in that it is not derived from petroleum, is designed to last up to 15 years, 3K engine hours or 150K miles.

I installed the lubricant in January, 2004 and changed it in March, 2011 after 50.5K miles. The only reason I replaced the lubricant then was because in all that time, I only burned about 4-6 ounces of lubricant so I never added any new lubricant. This was the lowest oil consumption that the company had ever seen and they requested I send the oil in for them to examine. They replaced the oil for free. After analysis, they requested that every 20K miles I replace about 11 ounces of lubricant with a special replacement oil. Using this regimen, I won't have to replace the oil until 2026.

The vehicle is a Ford Ranger with a 4.0L V-6, 5-spd manual and 4WD. The EPA estimated mileage is 15.3 MPG but I've averaged 19.986 MPG. You don't get that kind of fuel efficiency if the oil isn't working.
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wamster
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:13:45 PM

As long as you change the oil and filter regularly, and follow the manufacturer guidelines, you should be fine.
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:51:46 PM

Hello Alexi7. General Motors is not mandating a specific brand, but rather a specific specification, Dexos 1 (gasoline engines) or Dexos 2 (diesel engines). They are not saying that you must purchase their oil, but rather any oil used on a 2011 GM vehicle must be in compliance with that standard which is available to any company who pays for certification and a $.38 per gallon royalty fee. Mobil 1 is compliant. How does the law apply in this case? There are many oils being sold that are every bit as good, perhaps better, than this standard but some, such as Valvoline, refuse to submit to the expense of certifications and royalties.

Just yesterday, I went to the Chevrolet dealer who sold my 2012 Sonic. I asked the Service Manager, if an engine failed under warranty would they have the oil analyzed by a lab before honoring it. His answer was "Yes". He further stated if the oil was not Dexos compliant, the warranty would be void.

I can see where this may end up in the courts, if it hasn't already. Any thoughts? Thanks - MGY

[Edited by: Titanic1985 at 1/31/2013 6:53:10 PM EST]
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WEPSMAN
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 6:02:09 PM

I do not know about the oil, but filters are definitely a factor. They are not all made the same. I am a fan of Wix filters. They are made better than most.
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Alexi7
All-Star Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2013 7:50:11 AM

Titanic1985: In most states if a manufacturer requires a specific brand of oil to maintain warranty coverage, they are required to provide the oil free. Ferrari and BMW both ran into that legal hassle a few years back. Ferrari mandated Shell Helix 10W-60 in the Enzo. Back then it was about $15/quart, which is pocket change if you can afford an Enzo, but it became a legal issue because of Ferrari's business relationship with Shell Oil.
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noblegiant
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Message Posted: Jan 17, 2013 12:33:27 AM

Yes Synthetic Is Superior
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 9:30:44 PM

TITANIC comments about CM filters: . . . I do realize they fit into the high performance racing category, but who can afford the $150 cost for an oil filter these days?
_____
During the life of a car, say 150K miles, using a 5K OCI, you will buy 30 oil filters. At a cost of $6-8 for a good filter, you will have spent $180 to $240. I will have spent about the same or less even assuming the need to replace the filter media a couple of times so the price differential in the long run isn't that great. Though I have replaced the media once, it was just to show people what they look like after 50K miles. It could easily have gone another 50K.

Also, if you use an API SN oil, even going to 7000 miles, all you have to do is replace the oil you drain. There's no need to remove the filter unless you want to. The oil shouldn't be in bad condition making it necessary to replace the media. And, of course, you can switch to a true synthetic like the one I use (or Redline or Amsoil Signature) and go several years before checking the filter.

And instead of 30 oil filters in the landfill, your CM filter can be rebuilt. My CM filter is one of the best investments in both convenience and engine protection I've ever made.
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 9:40:17 AM

Hi MertieMan. You said "Don't change either and see what happens." I couldn't agree more. When I worked in the garage (1968 - 1969), an insurance agent had a Ford Galaxy 500 with a 289 cubic inch engine. In 30,000 miles, he never changed the oil or the oil filter. He drove from house to house selling insurance - severe service for any vehicle. I removed the oil drain plug and nothing came out. We had to partially remove the engine to get the oil pan off. It was solid gunk! I cleaned the pan and, since we had removed the valve covers to identify the sludge problem, put everything back together and ran "chase oil" through the engine. After draining that and putting in new oil and filter, started it up. It burned oil so badly, you couldn't see the street. That engine went to "Ford heaven" as it was ruined. Yes, what you say is true. Take care :-). MGY
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MertieMan
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 5:16:04 AM

Don't change either and see what actually happens to your engine. I saw one that went over 60,000 miles that had never been changed and it looked like someone had poured hot tar all over the valves and all internal parts of the engine. It blew it up, literally.
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jes
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Message Posted: Jan 16, 2013 5:04:27 AM

As long as you do regular oil & filter changes, I don't think the brands really matter.
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bearscharger
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 7:01:50 PM

oil filter quality is more important than the oil brand
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 5:33:32 PM

Hi Houckster. You and I have been around the block (in a good way) a few times regarding oil and oil filters. Your post was interesting in several ways.

You said, "The typical oil filter isn't designed to last this long". I owned a 2008 Chevrolet Equinox with the oil life system and GM never put a time limit on the oil changes, just the percentage of the oil life system. Now, my 2012 Chevrolet Sonic does add in the Owner's Manual that the oil & filter, regardless of the oil life system readout, should be changed every 12 months. This change may be related to your comments about the various oil filters?

You also said, "I certainly wouldn't want to use anything like a Fram." I read numerous comments like yours and have seen YouTube Videos showing their cardboard construction. What has happened to their quality and why don't they do something to restore their reputation? They are not less expensive than other brands.

My other comment is regarding your link to CM Filters. I do realize they fit into the high performance racing category, but who can afford the $150 cost for an oil filter these days? Gee, I remember in the 1950s and 1960s when people used to change an oil filter every other oil change to save money (not a great idea) or use a roll of toilet paper in the canister, but the point is the same -- who can afford to pay that much? Will using an oil filter that long void warranties?

Your comment on a "commensurate spec" oil filter was right on. I wish I had kept a detailed article about oil filters from a reliable source, but it seems that four or five companies make most of the over-the-counter filters and merely paint them a different color, put on a different label and charge more money. Have you seen this subject before? I once owned a John Deere tractor and every year the price of an oil filter went up $1.00. I was in WalMart and saw an 800 telephone number on an STP box and called them to see if they had an "agriculture" filter. They did and it was $2.00. Even now, other lawn tractors are charging $13.00 or more for 25 hours of engine operation. It doesn't make sense like you say. Take care :-) MGY.
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 4:53:11 PM

Hello 2004VHO. Thank you for the AC Delco Oil Filter Part Number. We do have Advanced Auto Parts here, but while they list three brands of filters (no AC Delco) they wouldn't stock them. I bought my 2012 Sonic on Memorial Day Weekend and they sold out the entire inventory -- it is a good selling vehicle. I called Auto Discounters Corporate and explained the need for at least one filter in stock and they over-rode the store manager's decision. I did find an STP brand at Auto Zone. Eventually, more stores will stock filters, etc. as 2012 was a first year model of a new car.

Thank you again for the information :-). MGY

[Edited by: Titanic1985 at 1/15/2013 4:55:47 PM EST]
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 2:53:42 PM

JIMMY544 writes: It all depends. But I think the type of motor oil and brand may make more difference than the brand of oil filter as long as they are both changed regularly.
_____
Actually, I think the opposite is true. The newest API spec SN is much more robust than the previous spec, SM. As much as 30% of the volume in a quart of lubricant is devoted to additives that make the oil last longer. I'm hearing people go to 7.5K or 10K OCIs. The typical oil filter isn't designed to last this long and I certainly wouldn't want to use anything like a Fram unless they've really upgraded the construction of their filters recently.

It really is a mystery that the API doesn't require oil filters to meet a commensurate spec because if the oil filter isn't doing its job, either by going to bypass or because the filter media has failed in some way, the engine will still suffer regardless of the oil.

The longer intervals we're starting to see require a high quality filter like a Fleetguard, Baldwin, Amsoil or upper level Purolator, Wix or Mobil 1 filter.

The best filter I've used is a CM filter. It can be disassembled for maintenance and it's essentially bulletproof. I've been using mine for nearly nine years and it has about 55K on it. I'll check it every 3-4 years.

[Edited by: Houckster at 1/15/2013 2:54:35 PM EST]
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jimmy544
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 12:57:32 PM

It all depends. But I think the type of motor oil and brand may make more difference than the brand of oil filter as long as they are both changed regularly. There are differences in brands of oil filters some have more filter area than others this might matter if oil and filter was not changed regularly but probably would not matter much with regular changes. I have seen some conventional oils coke up in an engine that is running at higher temperatures like long distance highway trips during very hot summer days. Of course regular oil changes will help to reduce the problem but a synthetic that cokes 50-100 degrees of temperature higher will help a lot more.
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kellyoneal
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 11:54:55 AM

Changing oil regulary does
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2004VHO
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 11:01:41 AM

"Titanic1985", The AC Delco PN# is PF2257G. My local O'reilly & Advance Auto Parts both show to stock the GM oil filter for the Sonic.

You might not have these chain stores that far out east....?
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Titanic1985
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Message Posted: Jan 15, 2013 10:52:10 AM

Good morning Alexi7. I think you've answered your own question in the details of your topic.

Today's engines run hotter, drive at higher RPMs and have more demanding designs (e.g. turbos, variable valve timing, etc.). I obviously can't dispute the success of either your or your brother's efforts, but I am inclined to go with your methodology.

Oil standards are now exceeding what used to be a simple matter of viscosity and API standards. GM, for example, requires dexos1 (gasoline engines) or dexos2 (diesel engines) in all of their vehicles built since the 2011 Model year. On another topic, I stated that a person was denied engine warranty coverage after the dealer sampled the oil and found it not to be in compliance with their mandates. Many of the quick oil change places and, as I found from one GB, some dealers are not in compliance.

2004VHO said, "If you have a Ford, buy a Motorcraft oil filter. If you have a GM vehicle, buy an AC Delco oil filter. If you own a Honda, buy only Honda oil filterS, etc, etc." I've heard this many times in regard to warranty compliance, but I cannot find or order an AC Delco oil filter for my current vehicle a GM Chevrolet Sonic.

I think careful maintenance using quality products in compliance with manufacturer's recommendations will provide your vehicle with a long trouble-free life.
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Norm1947
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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 12:35:08 AM

Yes
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kinger9976433
Rookie Author California

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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 12:30:32 AM

The filter is more important than the actual oil.
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wshokie12
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Message Posted: Jan 8, 2013 12:26:07 AM

yes
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Mizzer1
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 11:46:56 PM

Yes
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waynecz
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 10:58:29 PM

Probably more the engine oil filter than the oil if you change the oil as regularly as I do. But on cars that 'require' synthetic you should use synthetic so as not to void the manufacturers warranty.
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streetcars
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 10:36:06 PM

If you drive like a granny and change oil every 3 to 5000 miles to waste money they will all do the job, but run your car hard and extend oil change miles out to manufactures suggested you might want the good stuff.
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okeerob
Rookie Author Florida

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 9:27:22 PM

No. The important thing is to check fluild levels and change oil regularly.
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bearscharger
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 9:10:19 PM

Yes
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geobmw
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 7:41:31 PM

yes
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kellyoneal
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 6:32:09 PM

yes
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Carusle
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 3:03:09 PM

yes
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wrmedic
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 2:51:23 PM

There is a lot of difference in oil filters cut apart a couple and you can see the difference.
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2004VHO
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 2:45:30 PM

YES!!!

If you have a Ford, buy a Motorcraft oil filter. If you have a GM vehicle, buy an AC Delco oil filter. If you own a Honda, buy only Honda oil filterS, etc, etc.

Only subsitutes would be a BETTER than OE oil filter like, K&N or Mobile 1.

Also, name brand oils are better than the bulk oil today. Period.
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14smoke
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 12:15:30 PM

I wouldn't go with no label stuff, but, if you go with a name brand of oil and oil filter, as a general rule, you'll do just fine, as long as you change regularly to keep the inside of the engine clean and working properly, along with tune-ups and other regular maintenance.
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WEPSMAN
Champion Author South Dakota

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 12:05:41 PM

Yes. All filters are not made the same. Depending on the interval you change oil, you will want a better filter the longer you run between changes.
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RacerGene
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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 9:57:42 AM

yes
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bluenvoy
Champion Author Nashville

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Message Posted: Jan 7, 2013 9:42:06 AM

If you change it regularly any brand works. If you don't none work.
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