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Author Topic: Here Come the GM Hybrids!! Back to Topics
detfan

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2008 7:17:11 AM

GM, has steadily been improving and increasing its hybrid technology, first being used in buses back in 2002. Early automotive hybrids, on the Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu have been of the "mild" type -- not too much additional price, and not too much additional mileage. Playing catchup to the Prius and others, it now seems GM is getting in the game to dominate.

Enter the first two-stage hybrids, appropriately being introduced on GM's gas guzzling Tahoe and Yukon. The mileage ratings on these are 50% higher than their standard counterparts giving them the same city mileage as a 4 cyl. mid sized sedan. However, as the link below indicates, like my 2008 Malibu LTZ, the Tahoe tested is getting 25% better mileage than its EPA Ratings, getting 26.3 mpg!!

GM says they will be releasing new hybrids every three or four months, for the next few years. The 2009 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra will have this same technology. The Saturn Vue will, also, and then also be available as a plug-in hybrid. Its going to be interesting watching the progress and gauging the success of each model.
Chevy Tahoe Two-Stage Hybrid Road Test
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jpaul101
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 7:38:13 PM

Not for me.
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 7:13:07 PM

"Powered by a 1.8-litre four-cylinder gasoline engine paired to a two-motor electric drive unit, the 2016 Malibu hybrid is expected to pump out a combined 182 horsepower and sip 45 miles per gallon. No matter how you slice it, that’s a sizable jump in efficiency compared to the outoging Malibu hybrid."
2016 Chevy Malibu Hybrid will sip 45 MPG
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rumbleseat
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 6:54:37 PM

"If it looks lik a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I'm going to assume it's a duck..."

I guess that is one way to try to justify name-calling.
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cwje
Rookie Author Springfield

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 6:26:33 PM

GM will need to proove their safety record for me to consider
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GLM4205
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 6:13:28 PM

no
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reb4
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 3:50:35 PM

Link from DetFan's article.


Thanks for posting that DetFan, saw that headline on kiosk in elevator this morning but didn't catch the source...
I think there are still alot of people that figure prices are going back up.... eventually....

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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 1:42:29 PM

"If it looks lik a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I'm going to assume it's a duck..."

Um, there is a big difference between an enthusiast and a shill - but keep trying to justify your condescending comments...

;)
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 11:32:32 AM

Rough Data from Edmunds . . .

Hybrid and Electric Vehicles Struggle to Maintain Owner Loyalty, Reports Edmunds.com

Earth Day Analysis Shows Car Buyers Trading in Alternative Fuel Vehicles for SUVs More than Ever Before

SANTA MONICA, Calif. — April 21, 2015 — Car buyers are trading in hybrid and electric cars for SUVs at a higher rate than ever before, according to a new analysis from car-buying platform Edmunds.com. The analysis offers a surprising look at how today's gas prices are drawing hybrid and EV owners toward gas-guzzling vehicles at a much more accelerated pace than in recent years.

According to Edmunds.com, about 22 percent of people who have traded in their hybrids and EVs in 2015 bought a new SUV. The number represents a sharp increase from 18.8 percent last year, and it is nearly double the rate of 11.9 percent just three years ago. Overall, only 45 percent of this year's hybrid and EV trade-ins have gone toward the purchase of another alternative fuel vehicle, down from just over 60 percent in 2012. Never before have loyalty rates for alt-fuel vehicles fallen below 50 percent.

"For better or worse, it looks like many hybrid and EV owners are driven more by financial motives rather than a responsibility to the environment," says Edmunds.com Director of Industry Analysis Jessica Caldwell. "Three years ago, when gas was at near-record highs, it was a lot easier to rationalize the price premiums on alternative fuel vehicles. But with today's gas prices as low as they are, the math just doesn't make a very compelling case."

To underscore the point, Edmunds calculates that at the peak average national gas price of $4.67/gallon in October 2012, it would take five years to break even on the $3,770 price difference between a Toyota Camry LE Hybrid ($28,230) and a Toyota Camry LE ($24,460). At today's national average gas price of $2.27/gallon, it would take twice as much time (10.5 years) to close the same gap.[L=http://www.edmunds.com/about/press/text deleted/L]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 10:24:33 AM

"The fact that you don't further demonstrates why you shouldn't keep referring to people as 'shills'"

If it looks lik a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, I'm going to assume it's a duck...
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car54BC
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 10:20:40 AM

Too expensive still
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detfan
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2015 10:01:02 AM

Nice to see an article on the 2016 Chevy Malibu Hybrid as one of todays news stories!

Woot!!
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 4:16:57 PM

"How would I know that?"

The fact that you don't further demonstrates why you shouldn't keep referring to people as 'shills'.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 3:53:18 PM

"You know nobody here is paid by GM to post their opinions on the Volt"

How would I know that?
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 1:16:09 PM

""Shill" typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed)"

All I'm doing is giving an alternate perspective to that of the shills. What's wrong with that?"

You know nobody here is paid by GM to post their opinions on the Volt. Sad that you would even try to make that connection to disparage Volt enthusiasts...

Like I said, your agenda is entirely transparent.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 11:33:59 AM

"Shill" typically refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers the impression that they are an enthusiastic independent customer of a seller (or marketer of ideas) for whom they are secretly working. The person or group who hires the shill is using crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to purchase the goods or services (or accept the ideas being marketed)"

All I'm doing is giving an alternate perspective to that of the shills. What's wrong with that?
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2015 10:09:16 AM

"Weaslespit could you indicate which troll is still using the derogative term "shill" when describing Volt enthusiasts. I want to bring that poster to the attention of the GB moderators."

The only person I have quoted using that term is Shockjock1961.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 3:45:41 PM

"Again, in the nascent segment that is the PHEV Segment, the Chevy Volt dominates"

It hardly dominates even that small segment. You may be able to make a claim that it's competitive, but by no means does it dominate.

Sorry, archie the snail (AKA the Volt) is steadily loosing ground to other garden snails..
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 3:21:45 PM

Weaslespit could you indicate which troll is still using the derogative term "shill" when describing Volt enthusiasts. I want to bring that poster to the attention of the GB moderators.

Thanks.

[Edited by: detfan at 4/22/2015 3:22:01 PM EST]
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detfan
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 3:20:22 PM

Again, in the nascent segment that is the PHEV Segment, the Chevy Volt dominates. Yes, this is not exactly a mainstream segment, but in the niche market that it resides, it is the sales leader.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 2:33:38 PM

"Whose sales figures have never risen above aminiscule level...

FACT.."

Actually, that is an opinion. ;)

"So that people have another perspective other then the propaganda spewed by shills..."

Strange, it seems the best perspective is ones own so if you don't get in a Volt and drive it yourself, you are always relying on somebody elses opinion.

SMH

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 4/22/2015 2:34:51 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 1:34:20 PM

"Again, speaking of the facts;

"Yet it (Volt) is the #2 pluggable vehicle globally.""

Whose sales figures have never risen above aminiscule level and having been declining for years...

FACT...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 1:32:57 PM

"If the entire segment is inconsequential, why do you keep wasting your time posting about it?"

So that people have another perspective other then the propaganda spewed by shills...
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 1:27:56 PM

"Being the best in a inconsequential segment is not much of an accomplishment..."

If the entire segment is inconsequential, why do you keep wasting your time posting about it?

Suddenly, your motives become utterly transparent... ;)
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 1:26:53 PM

"Gas prices were quite high during 2013 and 2014 yet the Volts sales were miserable and fell during those years...."

Again, speaking of the facts;

"Yet it (Volt) is the #2 pluggable vehicle globally."
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 1:07:07 PM

While the other models of the Prius make up the difference, it is interesting to note that global sales of the Toyota Prius Liftback sales are down over 50% since 2010.

It will be interesting to see what the Malibu Hybrid does, if anything, to Volt sales next year.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 12:37:35 PM

"And number 1 PHEV globally"

Archie the garden snail was proclaimed the fastest snail on earth.

Being the best in a inconsequential segment is not much of an accomplishment...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 12:31:44 PM

"Unfortunately for all OEM's, gas prices dropped significantly"

Gas prices were quite high during 2013 and 2014 yet the Volts sales were miserable and fell during those years....

Unfortunately for GM, they seem to have invested $1.5 BILLION into a losing proposition...
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 12:25:40 PM

And number 1 PHEV globally.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 12:00:53 PM

"Unfortunately for GM, very few in this category have been buying the Volt, hence it's miserable sales figures..."

Yet it is the #2 pluggable vehicle globally.

Unfortunately for all OEM's, gas prices dropped significantly.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 11:44:18 AM

"Hence the purchase of minivans, SUV's etc. The only family that would look to purchase a Prius/Volt/Cruze/Civic/Corolla/Camry/Fusion/Malibu as a daily family hauler are those with 2 or fewer kids"

Unfortunately for GM, very few in this category have been buying the Volt, hence it's miserable sales figures...
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 11:25:24 AM

"A practical 5th seat, capable of seating an adult AND decent sized storage room are two of the major points consumers consider when it comes to a family car."

*sigh* - again, who plans for cramming 5 adults into a Prius consistently? The 'capability' of seating 5 is usually paramount over the actual 'need', and the Volt 2.0 is certainly 'capable'.

As far as families are concerned, the 5th seat in the Volt is more than adequate for kids - thus making it quite practical.

"A practical 5th seat, capable of seating an adult AND decent sized storage room are two of the major points consumers consider when it comes to a family car."

Hence the purchase of minivans, SUV's etc. The only family that would look to purchase a Prius/Volt/Cruze/Civic/Corolla/Camry/Fusion/Malibu as a daily family hauler are those with 2 or fewer kids.

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 4/22/2015 11:26:32 AM EST]
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 11:02:54 AM

geminijax, the 2nd gen Volt improves on gen 1, more than Prius gen 2 did with gen 1. The 2016 Chevy Volt is 94% brand new parts. So you can demean my post and get ugly all you wantby laughing at it(I'm used to it), but it doesn't change anything. Sales for gen 2 Prius were far better than gen I. I expect the same with gen 2 Volt, don't you?

As you know, I compare like timelines and like models. I am not ready to say the 2016 Volt is better than the 3rd gen Prius(because I haven't driven the 2016 Volt yet((but I suspect I will like the 2016 Volt far more than the 2015 Prius, again, because of the cheap plastic interior and total lack of performance in the Prius))), but again, let's talk again about that comparison when gen 3 of the Volt comes out. OK?

When have I ever said that Prius sales are not good? Its sales speaks for itself. There are obviously a big segment of the car buying public that will sacrifice looks, interior hard plastic, and boring ride for a few extra miles per gallon. Plus, remember, the Toyota Prius is the number one trade in for a Volt, so maybe some are sick of boring.

[Edited by: detfan at 4/22/2015 11:06:18 AM EST]
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 10:55:51 AM

geminijax, the bench seat in the Volt will handle three adults uncomfortably but acceptably for short trips, as the middle passenger will have to straddle the battery hump, and drinks in the cup holder. The best use will be for use with baby car seats. Really five seats are predominantly used for children anyway, so its not a big deal, but a welcome addition for a family considering it versus the current Volt.

This is the best that can be done until the battery dimension shrinks. I think it is a tremendous improvement from the current Volt.
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geminijax
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 10:36:39 AM

WS: "The 5th seat in the Volt is ideal for kids, so why would it now not have tremendously increased "appeal as a family car"?"

LOL! Based on the reviews I read, the 5th seat isn't really a practical option.

"And for that matter, who buy s a car of that size with the intention of cramming 5 people in it on a regular basis - period?"
Try doing some real research so as to the features a vast majority of consumers find appealing in a family car. A REAL 5th seat is one of them. Try talking to sales staff at your local dealerships on that point.

A practical 5th seat, capable of seating an adult AND decent sized storage room are two of the major points consumers consider when it comes to a family car.
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geminijax
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 10:29:58 AM

detfan:
"Not logical? It doesn't matter what gen 2 Prius turned into. The facts are that the second generation Prius sold far better than the first."
LOL! The changes to the 2nd gen Prius is a huge reason why it became so much more appealing to consumers.

"The second gen Volt, also, is not anything like the 1st Gen., and much more superior to the 2nd gen Prius."
That's your opinion. The consumers will render their verdict. Based on what I've read thus far about the 2nd gen Volt, I wouldn't consider it to be "more superior" to the 3rd gen Prius (the one currently on the market).

"Plus, it didn't have to change to a hatchback, because it always has been."
The Volt doesn't have much storage room. The hatchback configuration of the 2nd & 3rd gen Prius increased the storage room tremendously.

"Plus, even today you have cheap looking interior and boring ride of the Prius."
LOL! That's your opinion. The consumers' response to the Prius indicates those aren't affecting sales too much.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 9:45:20 AM

"That increased its appeal as a family car tremendously. Based on current reports, the 2nd gen Volt hasn't made much progress on these points"

The 5th seat in the Volt is ideal for kids, so why would it now not have tremendously increased "appeal as a family car"?

And for that matter, who buy s a car of that size with the intention of cramming 5 people in it on a regular basis - period?
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 9:36:35 AM

The 7 months was based on March sales, too, so I would expect a very low number of current Volt's available by the tim ethe 206 goues into production in July.

The Cadillac CT6 PHEV will produce 335 HP.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2015 9:26:04 AM

"The seven months refers to the unsold Volt inventory sitting on dealers' lots, as per one of the articles I had posted earlier. GM is hoping to have that inventory cleared out by the time the 2016 Volts start rolling off the assembly line."

Fact.
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 12:03:37 PM

geminijax,I know about the seven months. It was another poster that got the meaning of it wrong to think it would be seven months before the 2016 goes into production. So please don't correct me for being correct in correcting another poster.

"commercially viable" LOL excuses, excuses

Not logical? It doesn't matter what gen 2 Prius turned into. The facts are that the second generation Prius sold far better than the first. I don't think you would dispute that. The second gen Volt, also, is not anything like the 1st Gen., and much more superior to the 2nd gen Prius. Plus, it didn't have to change to a hatchback, because it always has been.

Plus, even today you have cheap looking interior and boring ride of the Prius.

[Edited by: detfan at 4/21/2015 12:07:21 PM EST]
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geminijax
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 10:57:02 AM

detfan:
"I do use the global Prius sales in comparison to Volt sales though, just to show everyone, that the Volt has actually outsold the Prius 1st generation."
Whereas the sales numbers might bear that out, it ought to be remembered that the first gen Prius actually created an entirely new category of cars that were commercially viable.

"The 2016 Volt better sell well, though, because 2nd gen Prius sales increased a good bit from Gen. 1"
That isn't very logical. The 2nd gen Prius was very different than Gen1. It changed to a hatchback design (giving it enormous storage space) and a true 5 seater configuration. That increased its appeal as a family car tremendously. Based on current reports, the 2nd gen Volt hasn't made much progress on these points.
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geminijax
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 10:50:12 AM

detfan: "Seven months?????? "

The seven months refers to the unsold Volt inventory sitting on dealers' lots, as per one of the articles I had posted earlier. GM is hoping to have that inventory cleared out by the time the 2016 Volts start rolling off the assembly line.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 9:23:27 AM

"So it looks like GM is achieving current Volt electric range in a much bigger and heavier car."

Sure, and they cost only what? $70K -$85K+?
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2015 6:21:46 AM

From Kelley Blue Book regarding the Cadillac CT6 PHEV:

"Although Cadillac quoted no performance stats at the reveal, it did state that the battery will be capable of delivering over 37 miles of pure EV driving range and that it can be recharged using either a standard 120V outlet or a dedicated 240V charging system."

So it looks like GM is achieving current Volt electric range in a much bigger and heavier car. I wonder what they can do on a soon to be lighter and smaller Chevy Equinox?
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2015 4:45:56 PM

The Cadillac CT6 PHEV is estimated to give over double the mileage of the standard CT6.
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2015 3:47:40 PM

On this board, it is so generic, that both the Prius and Volt fit in. However on my Volt Board, that is true. The Prius is just a hybrid, and the Volt is a PHEV. The accurate comparisons would be with the Prius PHEV. Even people comparing sales of the Leaf and Volt are missing it, because the Volt and Leaf are distinctly different segments.

I do use the global Prius sales in comparison to Volt sales though, just to show everyone, that the Volt has actually outsold the Prius 1st generation. The 2016 Volt better sell well, though, because 2nd gen Prius sales increased a good bit from Gen. 1

I also compare same timeline sales of the Prius PHEV to Volt sales and the Volt is beating that car by a good margin, however it is very close when you compare the 15 states that the Prius PHEV sells with Volt sales in those same states.
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detfan
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2015 3:39:40 PM

skudawg, you may be right. Ford has an excellent lineup of hybrid vehicles. The 2016 Chevy Maibu Hybrid appears to have better stats than the Ford Fusion Hybrid, but the take rate on the hybrid version of the Fusion is well over 10%, which is awesome!

[Edited by: detfan at 4/17/2015 3:39:54 PM EST]
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skudawg
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2015 3:14:54 PM

That may be all good but they will never catch the Fords!
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2015 1:50:34 PM

"Prius and Volt, two different segments..."

Which hasn't stopped discussion of the Prius in the Volt thread. PIP is a Prius, however...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2015 1:38:49 PM

Prius and Volt, two different segments...
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2015 1:18:13 PM

"Because they want to get back to those 1000/month car sales?

LOL!"

Weird how you claim to be against the entire segment, but have yet to post in the Prius thread...

Huh.

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 4/17/2015 1:19:50 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Apr 17, 2015 12:25:40 PM

" Some say production will begin in July, which makes sense, because one would think GM would want to roll it out as soon as possible"

Because they want to get back to those 1000/month car sales?

LOL!
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