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Author Topic: Here Come the GM Hybrids!! Back to Topics
detfan
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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2008 7:17:11 AM

GM, has steadily been improving and increasing its hybrid technology, first being used in buses back in 2002. Early automotive hybrids, on the Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu have been of the "mild" type -- not too much additional price, and not too much additional mileage. Playing catchup to the Prius and others, it now seems GM is getting in the game to dominate.

Enter the first two-stage hybrids, appropriately being introduced on GM's gas guzzling Tahoe and Yukon. The mileage ratings on these are 50% higher than their standard counterparts giving them the same city mileage as a 4 cyl. mid sized sedan. However, as the link below indicates, like my 2008 Malibu LTZ, the Tahoe tested is getting 25% better mileage than its EPA Ratings, getting 26.3 mpg!!

GM says they will be releasing new hybrids every three or four months, for the next few years. The 2009 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra will have this same technology. The Saturn Vue will, also, and then also be available as a plug-in hybrid. Its going to be interesting watching the progress and gauging the success of each model.
Chevy Tahoe Two-Stage Hybrid Road Test
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 10:14:28 PM

"Facts are very cruel on you aren't they... and thanks for proving my point while trying to prove yours..."

Keep ignoring the reality posted for you here in black-and-white;

"(and these are just the ones giving their info for stat tracking...)"

Some people enjoy doubling down on inane talking points with zero merit behind them as they think it helps them 'win' something... All it does is further erode any remaining credibility.

So sad that haters gotta hate.
reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 10:12:12 PM

"Keep trying to ignore this fact. I know it is inconvenient for you."


Facts are very cruel on you aren't they... and thanks for proving my point while trying to prove yours...

WeasleSpit...




LOL

[Edited by: reb4 at 2/24/2015 10:12:42 PM EST]
luvmyburgi
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:53:35 PM

Good
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:51:55 PM

"Density? It looks like there is one Volt for about every 100 to 200 square miles. Like I said. It's no wonder very few people in Chicago see a Volt on a daily basis..."

And yet another in denial of the facts;

Here, I'll post it again for you as well since you and reb keep ignoring it;

"(and these are just the ones giving their info for stat tracking...)"

Hilarious that I spelled it out because I knew how you two would try to deflect the point, yet you are both doubling-down on this inane talking point.

Pathetic.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:49:29 PM

"So I looked and reported, from the map YOU linked to that their were NO registered Volts in the DOWNTOWN area of Chicago."

So, you are now doubling down on your glossing over the facts;

"(and these are just the ones giving their info for stat tracking...)"

Keep trying to ignore this fact. I know it is inconvenient for you.
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 8:27:34 PM

"...reb glossed over..."


WeasleSpit, actually, i didn't gloss over anything. In fact I looked at why I hadn't seen any volts since they "purportedly"are alot according to several fan bois...

So I looked and reported, from the map YOU linked to that their were NO registered Volts in the DOWNTOWN area of Chicago. I also checked to see if there were any in my area or my route... but very few...

But now you insinuated in your posts that I was not noticing Volts because I wasn't looking for them...


All I can do is tell the truth WeasleSpit... But if you can't accept, maybe it's because you have a hard time with the truth.....



As you always used to say.... Haters are going to Hate....

SMH
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 7:54:35 PM

"Compare the density with other areas"

Density? It looks like there is one Volt for about every 100 to 200 square miles. Like I said. It's no wonder very few people in Chicago see a Volt on a daily basis...
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 10:22:30 AM

"WS's map actually shows how rare the Volt is in Chicago. In a city with over a million auto's registered in Chicago. WS's map shows literally enough Volts in the area to be counted on two hands."

Compare the density with other areas, then remember this part you and reb glossed over;

(and these are just the ones giving their info for stat tracking...)"
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:58:51 AM

WS's map actually shows how rare the Volt is in Chicago. In a city with over a million auto's registered in Chicago. WS's map shows literally enough Volts in the area to be counted on two hands.

No wonder hardly anyone sees one...
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2015 9:51:11 AM

"I have no idea what will happen next with GM on electric, diesel, or hydrogen, but their PHEV strategy appears to be working"

Sure if GM's strategy is to sell an overly expensive compact car at a loss while watching it's miniscule sales volume decline despite being handed $7500 worth of taxpayer funded handouts/bribes for each vehicle sold, then GM's strategy is working superbly!
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 6:21:32 PM

Yep, like i saaid, none downtown or in my community. I'll watch for one in Elmwood park and saw one on map in elmhurst. Odd none in loop area though.
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 3:18:41 PM

Yeah, there's hardly any Volts in Chicago (and these are just the ones giving their info for stat tracking...)
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 3:05:28 PM

"hard to tell difference between the Volt and Cruze.... but don't see many of those either downtown Chicago."

Which only proves my point. Thanks.
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 2:17:05 PM

E-Squirell - Depends what "volume" means..Many of the purchasers of Volt were actually Prius Early and loyal users..."Enough that you should see them on the roads on a regular bases"

WeasleSpit, when making a snide comment, always best to really check.. Or were you into baseball with the BASES...
"if you actually drive with your eyes open..."Most of my sightings are walking the downtown streets of Chicago... And I do have my eyes open, though I would have to say, hard to tell difference between the Volt and Cruze.... but don't see many of those either downtown Chicago.

Lots of Hybrids though... especially cabs...
detfan
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 2:15:02 PM

E-Squirrel, don't let the fact that the Chevy Volt is currently outselling the Toyota Prius in Global sales over both of their first five years of existence cloud your judgement.

Also, please note that the Chevy Volt, by far is the best selling PHEV in this country It is true that the Chevy Volt is conquesting a lot and each year the majority of trade ins have been Toyota Prius's, meaning likely NOT from an affluent, Corvette or Tesla car consumer.

Also, at leases from $249 to $399(currently $299), the Chevy Volt is not that much more expensive to lease than traditional mid sized sedans. In fact, the Toyota Prius Sedan lease currently is $359

The Chevy Volt is one of several models that qualify for the $7,500 tax credit, so to single the Volt out is a little disingenuous.

In addition, Toyota's first generation Prius sold for 6 model years, while the Volt's 1st gen will have gone 5 years when gen II launches later this year.

GM has also moved much more quickly to additional Voltec models than Toyota has. It took Toyota 12 years to add another version of the Prius.

The Toyota Prius improved its city/highway mileage 12.2%/9.8% with Gen II. The 2nd gen Volt increased its electric/gas mileage 42.86%/10.81%

I have no idea what will happen next with GM on electric, diesel, or hydrogen, but their PHEV strategy appears to be working, if you compare it to the road that the Toyota Prius has traveled. The future will tell the rest of the story, and it is no secret that I am rooting for GM, and Ford, and Tesla, as American Company's. Getting harder and harder to put Chrysler in the American based company category.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 1:38:50 PM

"WeasleSpit, that is very difinitive... Whats the fifference between "quite a few" and "not so many"?

SMH..."

Enough that you should see them on the roads on a regular bases, if you actually drive with your eyes open...

;)
E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 1:01:02 PM

From the snippet posted by reb4:

"It’s done a tremendous amount to conquest new buyers, and they have [high] incomes like Corvette buyers."

Trying to interpret that... If true, I take that to mean:

"Its selling to people who would otherwise NEVER buy a car from GM" and, like the Tesla, its another way that the government has helped the very wealthy obtain a new ego toy, subsidized by the poorer taxpayers who could never afford one of these themselves.

I am still waiting to see GM sell a hybrid that the Prius or C-Max demographic could and would purchase in volume.
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 11:50:54 AM

"There is actually quite a few in Chicagoland, but I wouldn't expect you to accept that fact..."





WeasleSpit, that is very difinitive... Whats the fifference between "quite a few" and "not so many"?




SMH...



[Edited by: reb4 at 2/23/2015 11:52:17 AM EST]
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 11:44:40 AM

"Of course this comes from a person who thinks 542 Volts sold in January is something to brag about..."

Where have I bragged on that number? The only reference I have ever made regarding January sales numbers is to post 'why' they were so low - across the board.

Haters gonna hate...
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 11:43:29 AM

"There is actually quite a few in Chicagoland, but I wouldn't expect you to accept that fact..."

Of course this comes from a person who thinks 542 Volts sold in January is something to brag about...
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2015 8:30:57 AM

"Actually Weasle, not many... of course."

There is actually quite a few in Chicagoland, but I wouldn't expect you to accept that fact...
reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2015 10:26:40 PM

"Like Chicago"

Actually Weasle, not many... of course.
From the article I previously posted:

"Despite cheerleading now going forth, and the fact the Volt is offered in all 50 states, the head of Chevrolet’s marketing effort was quoted in August saying Volt is not a mass-market car; it’s not for everyone and its maker is treating it accordingly."Obviously .... that's an under Statement....
“It’s an impressive product in its design, performance and technology. It’s a real halo for the brand. It’s done a tremendous amount to conquest new buyers, and they have [high] incomes like Corvette buyers. Customer satisfaction is through the roof,” said Chevrolet Chief Marketing Officer Tim Mahoney. “But the reality is that there’s a finite market for Volt, and it’s geographical. California is the epicenter; it’s not about selling Volt in Oklahoma. And we’ve gotten smarter about deploying resources for the vehicle.”




This is from the MARKETING guy.... WOW!

Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 10:04:35 AM

"...and few other places."

Like Chicago...
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2015 7:55:48 AM

Will GM Expand the 2016 Volt’s Market, or Will it Remain a ‘Geographical’ Niche?Interesting article, very complimentary of the volt... "But is this marketing hype? Is it one more example of bluster that will not be held to scrutiny by a general public already not that passionate about the car?

In a piece by Forbes which interviewed Green Car Reports editor John Voelcker, little evidence was given that the answer will not be a qualified yes. It was suggested based on GM’s own more-telling statements that the 2016 Volt will remain a minority product catering to progressives in California, the Pacific Northwest, Northeast and few other places."We will see...

reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2015 11:54:15 PM

I click on some links while in here, adds profit to gb
Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Feb 16, 2015 9:03:49 AM

"LOL, keep responding when they do and it will not go away..."

You might want to scroll down - the trolls have kept this one alive all on your own...
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2015 2:04:04 PM

"Gotta love the trolls that come here to beat a dead horse. Even detfan has admitted he was in error..."
LOL, keep responding when they do and it will not go away....oh... According to this link, they still had market share of 1.45% of hybrid market...



Buick Lacrosse - 326
Chevrolet Impala - 19
Buick Regal Hybrid - 12
Chevrolet Malibu - 6

Chevrolet Silverado - 2
GMC Yukon - 2
Cadillac Escapade 1
Hard to believe they are still selling them... and who would buy them?
And My comment / question is based on the fact that GM has all but abandoned the hybrid section.Oh well, maybe that's why a GM Stock holder is challenging them....






Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2015 12:53:46 PM

"detfans predictive abilities are very poor. He predicted prior to it's initial offering that the Volt would be seeing sales exceeding 5000 units/month by now. The actual sales figures for Jan were under 600 units.

Perhaps he needs a new crystal ball?"

Gotta love the trolls that come here to beat a dead horse. Even detfan has admitted he was in error...

*YAWN*
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2015 12:51:49 PM

detfans predictive abilities are very poor. He predicted prior to it's initial offering that the Volt would be seeing sales exceeding 5000 units/month by now. The actual sales figures for Jan were under 600 units.

Perhaps he needs a new crystal ball?
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2015 8:19:09 PM

E,

Very interesting here is the link
2016 Chevy Volt: Bigger Battery, More Motor Power, New Range Extender Engine Details: EXPANDED



detfan
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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2015 6:56:38 PM

E, I'm not holding my breath. The last time I read the rumors and supposed future plans, I created this board. That didn't go to well, and several haters began mocking me and this board. I am so surprised at the number of GM related alternative energy forums there are when the market share continues to be very very small.

Every time I think this one has finally lost its luster, it pops back onto the scene. Go figure.
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2015 6:18:30 PM

I will need to read that later e. GM has some financial issues to deal with with an aggressive stock holder making some unwanted advances...

E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2015 4:48:57 PM

Looking at reports of new hybrid power trains expected to debut in the near future, I have spotted a couple of articles that speculate that the Volt (arguably the most "successful" hybrid design that GM has fielded to date) will serve as the prototype of a raft of new GM hybrid models. Most of this speculation surrounds the anticipated 2015.5 year Volt 2 design. It is speculated that GM may drop the plug-in feature (a feature which adds little to the value of the design) and offer models with reduced battery size (weight and cost savings) that might be more profitable to build and sell, and compete more successfully with the Totyota Prius.

Since many other manufacturers are expected to field new hybrid models, it will be interesting to see how they all compare. GM got off to a slow start and stumbled with its earlier hybrid designs. It is arguable, that with the success demonstrated by other manufacturers, that GM must have a more competitive hybrid design in order to remain a major vehicle manufacturer.

Perhaps detfan's original post will finally have more to point to later this year.

Is The 2016 Chevy Volt GM's Future Hybrid System In Disguise?

See also another article with more details of the Volt's new powertrain :
:

[L=http://www.greencarreports.com/news/text deleted Chevy Volt: Bigger Battery, More Motor Power, New Range Extender Engine Details[/L]



[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 2/12/2015 4:55:45 PM EST]
reb4
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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2015 1:50:11 PM

LOL that is funny E , odd that the volt and spark come in so far behind the others.
E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Feb 1, 2015 2:18:06 PM

More articles on the second generation Volt are beginning to appear. I found two recent ones, this one, discusses changes for the new version and contains some nicely drawn cut-away illustrations, all done in a very slick, sales brochure style fashion.

How Much Better....

The second one provides snap ratings of a number of vehicles but lumps hybrid and battery EV models together. Perhaps some people consider this one, single "alternative" market, but I don't believe that it is. The Toyota Prius finds its market largely with drivers seeking very high mileage vehicles without any particular interest in "alternative" energy.

Best Hybrid Car ...

[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 2/1/2015 2:21:29 PM EST]
E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2015 10:28:52 AM

reb4 suggests:

"E-Squirell be[sic] interested to know about the changes,

But the Bolt seems to be of interest..."

Yes, I am. From the description, the Bolt would be a pure battery-EV, not a hybrid like the Volt (or other recent GM offerings). Since GM derived the Volt from an earlier prototype EV with an onboard "recharger", a 200 mile range may be viewed as long enough to dispense with the ICE altogether. Would GM continue to offer the Volt after release of the Bolt, or would it be withdrawn? Is GM likely to make any other hybrid models?

The Bolt would appear to compete more directly with Tesla and Nissan (and a few others), but since Toyota distains battery-EV design, would appear not be be competing with Toyota any longer.

[Edited by: E-Squirrel at 1/14/2015 10:29:37 AM EST]
reb4
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Message Posted: Jan 13, 2015 9:15:09 AM

E-Squirell be interested to know about the changes,

But the Bolt seems to be of interest...Link
E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Jan 12, 2015 11:32:20 PM

GM`s announcement of the revised Volt would seem to justify the title of this thread. Anyone have an analysis of the revised hybrid design?
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Nov 23, 2014 12:01:34 PM

Weaslespit: "One of these days you will have to let me borrow that crystal ball so I can pick some lottery numbers... "

I didn't need a crystal ball. It was *obvious* that they wouldn't sell.

The Tahoe was extremely expensive and aimed at people who do not care about fuel economy. If they did care about fuel economy, they wouldn't buy Tahoes. Or, if they did suddenly get religion, they could downsize to a Traverse, and get similar fuel economy to the Tahoe hybrid for $25K less.

The Malibu hybrid was very nearly the same price as the Camry hybrid but offered combined fuel economy of about 11mpg less. Hybrids are all about the numbers. detfan made a big deal about the "1970's AM radio stack" in the Camry vs the allegedly up-optioned Malibu hybrid but, as was obvious to anybody who has thought about the hybrid market at all, the numbers were what mattered and the Malibu hybrid was a total failure.

I've actually found two people who bought Malibu hybrids. They regretted it. Deeply regretted it. Both said, "Should have bought a Prius."

No crystal ball... just awareness of the market and a willingness to think about the products and face reality.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 8:03:33 PM

Interesting post squirrel.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 8:00:48 PM

"When it was posted, Feb 21 2008 6:17:11 AM, it was obvious to anybody that cared to think about it, that both of GM's hybrid products, the truck-based two-mode and the Epsilon-based BAS, were doomed to failure..."

One of these days you will have to let me borrow that crystal ball so I can pick some lottery numbers...
E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 7:25:50 PM

Tucsonhomes enthuses:

"I'm waiting for hydrogen"

Hydrogen fuel cell technologies is one of the most over promised technologies out there. I am sure that all manufacturers will eventually be selling these, but not in any quantity for a long while. The gating problem is the fuel. You essentially need the same technology as CNG, but much more sophisticated and expensive. CNG vehicles have been available, with mature technology for more than fifty years, but the lack of the fueling infrastructure keeps them in fleets of short-range vehicles with a central, private fueling point.

Beside all of the challenges that CNG presents, hydrogen suffers from the fact that unlike natural gas, its just a fuel, not an energy source. Moreover, there is not an existing utility pipe network. Finally, hydrogen escapes easily and under pressure tends to infiltrate metal itself, making it brittle.

Hydrogen fuel cells may be the future, but not the near one. Toyota recently announced a model, and Honda actually shipped a few a couple of years ago, but has been silent since. Perhaps a new "Here come the Toyota hydrogen models" thread is called for. (With apologies to detfan who clearly expected GM's vehicles to become more popular back in 2008).
Tucsonhomes
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 5:47:43 PM

I'm waiting for hydrogen
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 5:03:13 PM

Weaslespit: "It was relevant when it was posted... Unfortunately for GM, they failed."

When it was posted, Feb 21 2008 6:17:11 AM, it was obvious to anybody that cared to think about it, that both of GM's hybrid products, the truck-based two-mode and the Epsilon-based BAS, were doomed to failure.

detfan, in his zeal to promote GM and trash the Japanese, completely overlooked the glaring flaws in the product, and posted a lot of nonsense, which went on to do for years. To be perfectly fair, GM had to overlook the glaring flaws, too.

He's still coming back to the Volt thread with nonsense comparisons and completely ignoring facts on the ground; anything to get GM the win. It's more than a touch annoying.

Well, he doesn't get to give GM the win. GM has to earn it and the principal way they must earn it is in profits. When they have an advanced-tech car or truck that they can sell in decent quantity, without taxpayer assistance, profitably, I'll be impressed.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 2:43:37 PM

"... this thread exists at all. detfan's been shilling for GM for years."

It was relevant when it was posted... Unfortunately for GM, they failed.

Even detfan has admitted as much.
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 2:25:11 PM

Weaslespit: "But because of the fanboy..."

... this thread exists at all. detfan's been shilling for GM for years.
Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 2:13:46 PM

"Toyota, which we expected to be crushed under the wheels of GM's mighty hybrid machine..."

GM Is not the only automaker to have hybrids that failed to sell. The list is a long one.

But because of the fanboys, the vitriol gets posted (over and over and over and...) on this thread aimed solely at GM's failure.

Predictable.
Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 12:28:09 PM

"GM, has steadily been improving and increasing its hybrid technology, first being used in buses back in 2002. Early automotive hybrids, on the Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu have been of the "mild" type -- not too much additional price, and not too much additional mileage. Playing catchup to the Prius and others, it now seems GM is getting in the game to dominate."

Detfan, are you trying to claim this was GM's statetment and not your own?
detfan
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 12:17:26 PM

Charlie_H, I never promised anything. GM did. I was only repeating what GM was promising at the time. Because what they promised obviously didn't happen, I stopped supporting my own board. I'm not even sure why I clicked on it. But, hey, it gave me chance to respond to misinformation on who promised what.
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2014 11:47:46 AM

GM's two-mode hybrid sales, part of the hybrid domination that detfan promised us over 6 years ago, amounted to 5.

Toyota, which we expected to be crushed under the wheels of GM's mighty hybrid machine, cranking out new models left and right, retains a market share of 65%. Their nearest US challenger is Ford, which has shown some capability to do things right. GM's share is under 3%, and is made up mostly of their HINOs (Hybrids In Name Only - weak systems that amount to little more than start-stop under ideal conditions and which deliver no significant fuel savings).

In other news, I finally happened to encounter someone who owns a Tahoe hybrid, after all these many years. Turns out he's not a happy camper. What a surprise.
Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2014 12:25:32 AM

12 Per cent greater overall range?

They could pretty much get that by adding another gallon to the gas tank on the existing car.

Vague, indeed.

From the article: "“Greater range (particularly in EV mode), fuel efficiency, and power were the top three requests from owners of 2011-2013 Volt models,” said a report by SAE International citing Larry Nitz, GM’s Executive Director, Transmission and Electrification."

About 1500 people per month buy Volts. If GM makes it more attractive to them... so what? 1500 people per month will buy another Volt? Hooray?

GM must make the car more attractive to the people that didn't buy the original Volt, so as to increase sales. To do that, they have to ask the non-owners what's wrong. Let's start with a lower price, a fifth seat, more cargo room and better CS mode fuel economy. The latter makes the Prius less of a "safe" choice.
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