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Author Topic: Here Come the GM Hybrids!! Back to Topics
detfan

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2008 7:17:11 AM

GM, has steadily been improving and increasing its hybrid technology, first being used in buses back in 2002. Early automotive hybrids, on the Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu have been of the "mild" type -- not too much additional price, and not too much additional mileage. Playing catchup to the Prius and others, it now seems GM is getting in the game to dominate.

Enter the first two-stage hybrids, appropriately being introduced on GM's gas guzzling Tahoe and Yukon. The mileage ratings on these are 50% higher than their standard counterparts giving them the same city mileage as a 4 cyl. mid sized sedan. However, as the link below indicates, like my 2008 Malibu LTZ, the Tahoe tested is getting 25% better mileage than its EPA Ratings, getting 26.3 mpg!!

GM says they will be releasing new hybrids every three or four months, for the next few years. The 2009 Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra will have this same technology. The Saturn Vue will, also, and then also be available as a plug-in hybrid. Its going to be interesting watching the progress and gauging the success of each model.
Chevy Tahoe Two-Stage Hybrid Road Test
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 4:38:34 PM

"Should someone now complain about "unsubstantiated opinion?""

Over an answer of a random question asking for an opinion?

Interesting....
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 2:25:19 PM

Weaslespit: "Not that I can see..."

Should someone now complain about "unsubstantiated opinion?"
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2014 10:00:27 AM

"Is there some reason not to revisit this thread from time to time and re-evalute the original bold prediction?"

Outside of personal gratification? Not that I can see...

"I didn't even participate in detfan's thread, "Why are some import supporters so hateful?" even though he quoted me on a number of occasions."

Well, that discussion focuses more on fanbois than the subject of your true passion... but yet you still follow it. ;)

"Now, did you intend to post some examples of GM dominating this game or are you just planning to complain about other commenters?"

How is my posting that nothing new is being posted complaining? It is a simple statement of fact...

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 10/17/2014 10:02:30 AM EST]
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 16, 2014 9:24:32 AM

Weaslespit: "... why not post it in a thread about Toyota's hybrid program?"

I'm already in 7 active threads. That's plenty.

"For some reason you feel the need to seek out any pro-GM thread ..."

As I'm only in 18 threads, total (11 are inactive), that's clearly inaccurate. I didn't even participate in detfan's thread, "Why are some import supporters so hateful?" even though he quoted me on a number of occasions. Of course, it's not like I was invited to participate.

Is there some reason not to revisit this thread from time to time and re-evalute the original bold prediction?

Now, did you intend to post some examples of GM dominating this game or are you just planning to complain about other commenters?
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 15, 2014 11:35:19 PM

"That's not kicking a dead horse, that's posting a link to a[nother] significant Toyoat hybrid milestone and, by implication, inviting comparison and contrast."

If it isn't kicking the dead horse, why not post it in a thread about Toyota's hybrid program?

Probably because you enjoy kicking the dead horse.

"Rather than complain about other posters, you could post something informative and interesting about GM's hybrid millstones."

If you don't like the idiom used, tough. Whining won't make the comment any less accurate. For some reason you feel the need to seek out any pro-GM thread and do whatever it takes to dispute and tear down any positive data and interject Toyota whenever possible, yet you don't post in Toyota threads nor do you start your own threads to discuss your favorite automaker, such as Toyota's impressive hybrid milestone.

I wonder why that is?

[Edited by: Weaslespit at 10/15/2014 11:40:40 PM EST]
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 15, 2014 5:31:34 PM

That's not kicking a dead horse, that's posting a link to a[nother] significant Toyoat hybrid milestone and, by implication, inviting comparison and contrast.

Rather than complain about other posters, you could post something informative and interesting about GM's hybrid millstones.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 15, 2014 11:59:49 AM

Dead horse - Kicked!
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 14, 2014 3:23:51 PM

Toyota: 7 Million hybrids so far
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 2:36:44 PM

Weaslespit: "You're better-off just posting it to his whiteboard if that be the case"

If that was the case, I still wouldn't. He has expressed an intense dislike for me on many occasions. I would say that unsolicited posting to his whiteboard might cause him to fly off the handle. He's taken more than a few dumps on mine, of course, but I'm more of a "live and let live" kind of guy.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 2:23:36 PM

"I'm not kicking a dead horse. I'm providing perspective to people who think GM has stolen a march on the rest of the industry in advanced drivetrains."

To whom? detfan? You're better-off just posting it to his whiteboard if that be the case given how little traffic frequents this thread anymore.

So, yes, you are indeed kicking the poor, dead horse.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:50:16 PM

I'm not kicking a dead horse. I'm providing perspective to people who think GM has stolen a march on the rest of the industry in advanced drivetrains.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:49:21 PM

"They have not hit with any of their attempts thus far outside of the Volt"
"What else is there to say?"

Well for one, with the miniscule and falling sales the Volt is experiencing, GM has failed with that vehicle too...
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 1:17:04 PM

"It will be interesting watching the progress and gauging the success of each model... Won't it...
By the way, last time I posted on GM hybrid topic .... prior than this was Oct. 3...How about you.... looks like Aug. 11..."

Probably because it is a dead horse that charlie likes to kick every now and again.

GM has failed in the hybrid segment. There is no disputing that. They have not hit with any of their attempts thus far outside of the Volt as most of the products they launched offered too little gain for the premium paid, despite 2 or even 3 iterations.

What else is there to say?
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 11:07:52 AM

First, let's congratulate GM for making a move in hybrid sales last month. Sales of the Subaru XV Crosstrek hybrid fell off by over 20% and GM capitalized on that with a 7% increase in Buick Lacrosse hybrids to retake the 15th spot. Well done, GM!

Second, a couple of months ago, I pointed out a review of the Malibu with idle-stop. Weaslespit took some exception to this:

"That was all I needed to read to know that the author wasn't going to like the car and was going to blast it as hard as possible... This is what you rely on for 'evidence'?"

My attention was redirected to that article for other reasons, recently and 'Spit should have read the whole article before dissing it. The mark of a good review is whether or not the author can apply some reasonably objective criteria, comparison and contrasts in evaluating a car. I think Baruth was able to do so.

2015 Chevrolet Malibu Eco LS

To quote from the article:

Most of the time, coming to a halt in the ‘Bu will cause the engine to fall dead and the tach needle to fall to “auto stop”. So far so good and other than a discernible drop in the efficacy of the A/C there’s not much about which you could complain. Release the brakes and the engine immediately spins up and delivers power, and off you go.

No, wait.

That’s how it works in other cars.

In the Malibu it goes WHIRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEAAARRRRRRRRGH and the engine reluctantly coughs into life like a freakin’ 1982 Citation Iron Duke and the car briefly shudders with the violence of it and THEN the car moves forward.

---

More:

In what should be perfect weather for this sort of system — eighty degrees and sunny — I had genuine concerns that the Malibu just wouldn’t come back to life at a given stop. Performing left turns across traffic and whatnot were made frightening, so I developed the “Malibu Pokey”:

You put your right foot in
You take your right foot out
It makes the stop-start start up
and run the engine
That’s what it’s all about!

---

And it doesn't hurt if the author is able to inject a little humor into the piece.

It's interesting that this is the kind of car GM develops when it's "getting in the game to dominate." As someone once said, "Yeah, baby!"

[Edited by: Charlie_H at 10/8/2014 11:08:21 AM EST]
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reb4
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 9:35:27 AM

" in a stalkery attempt to discredit me through false propaganda and innuendo."

LOL Weasle... you have the flare for the dramatics... don't ya now...As for GM Hybrids....

GM Hybrids.... slim pickings.... EV Spark, Volt, and ELR...

It will be interesting watching the progress and gauging the success of each model... Won't it...
By the way, last time I posted on GM hybrid topic .... prior than this was Oct. 3...How about you.... looks like Aug. 11....


Hmmmmmmmmm

[Edited by: reb4 at 10/8/2014 9:36:54 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 8:39:31 AM

Perhaps you should have read more threads where I praise Toyota, Honda, VW, Ford, Hyundai (et al) and criticize GM, rather than a cursory search in a stalkery attempt to discredit me through false propaganda and innuendo. I'm pretty sure I even positively commented on your Prius given the travel stats you posted from your last vacation.

Why not try posting about how you feel about GM hybrids, since that is what this thread is about?

Or are you so utterly fixated on me, all of a sudden? I should be flattered...
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reb4
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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2014 8:35:11 AM

LOL Weaslespit... hardly, just saw how many posts you had to ... just use the links as guidelines suggest... "
3. Back up your arguments with facts. Where possible, facts should be supported by a link to a respected Internet source."I think the proof is overwhelming... But hey, turn around and prove me long with your own links...




""Still not sure how I am a 'fanboi' when I respect product from all manufacturers. But hey, whatever floats your boat.""



as for following you here... LOL... I have this as one of favorite topics. I had hoped gm would provide reasonable competition to fuel efficient vehicles. You as I recall began with thinking the segment was a waste of time... What I was somewhat supprised to find, was the bashing of Toyota... you didn't shy away from the Toyota bashing.... you did have more negative topics on Toyota Bashing than positive for GM / Chevy... I'll admit that...




You are hardly a supporter of all manufacturers.... only D3 .... at least based on your topics started under Weaslespit....



[Edited by: reb4 at 10/8/2014 8:43:08 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2014 10:48:39 PM

So my posting positive articles about a handful of 'actually decent' GM products is evidence to you that I don't respect vehicles from other makes/models?

Oh my... Somebody is behaving strangely, seeking me out in multiple threads in a sad attempt to twist anything I say; more-so than the usual fanboy haters...

I wonder what the motive might be? But then, I guess that would belong in the 'hhhhmmmmmm' thread now, wouldn't it?
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reb4
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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2014 10:40:18 PM

"Still not sure how I am a 'fanboi' when I respect product from all manufacturers. But hey, whatever floats your boat."




What a line that is......




Topic: GM twin SUVs top crash test





Topic: Chevy Cruze Review






Topic: GM Debuts new Buick Regal at LA Auto Show





LOL, should I post the 7 toyota bashing topics????


do you think anyone is going to believe your B.S.?




You work in the auto industry???






SMH....

[Edited by: reb4 at 10/7/2014 10:41:14 PM EST]
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2014 9:48:04 AM

Weaslespit: "Still not sure how I am a 'fanboi' when I respect product from all manufacturers."

Only a Fellow FanBoi would repost detfan's lameline comparisons. Only a FanBoi would not figure out that $7500 has an influence that $600 can't touch. Only a FanBoi would not figure out that 10 years of market observation is a priceless advantage.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2014 9:41:30 AM

"You mean like the GM FanBoi did when he started this topic 4 1/2 years ago?"

Both sides have them... That cant be denied.
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Oct 4, 2014 1:21:17 PM

"Toyota fanboy world, where crystal ball prediction are 'facts'"

LOL!!

You mean like the GM FanBoi did when he started this topic 4 1/2 years ago? His predictions turned out to be far from "factual" didn't it?
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 3, 2014 12:37:53 PM

"The GM FanBoi world... facts are "hate.""

Toyota fanboy world, where crystal ball prediction are 'facts'...

Still not sure how I am a 'fanboi' when I respect product from all manufacturers. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 3, 2014 12:20:58 PM

reb4,

Thank you, yes, that is true. But that segment is much smaller than the pure hybrid segment and GM is losing money in it. And GM trails badly in the pure BEV segment, too.
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reb4
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Message Posted: Oct 3, 2014 11:26:32 AM

Charlie, the GM does have 44.8% of US Market last month for the speical designation "Plug-In Hybrid Cars" that the dashboards has setup...
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 3, 2014 10:43:14 AM

The GM FanBoi world... facts are "hate."

The facts are these... GM has had 17 years to figure out how to compete with Toyota and make money off a mainstream hybrid or advanced tech car and all their biggest "success" to date is the Volt ("we lose money on every one"), of which they managed to sell less than 1400 units last month with a tax credit equal to more than a fifth of it's outrageous MSRP.

The hot air that GM produced when developing it should have been harnessed to heat all the cities of Norway.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Oct 3, 2014 10:33:35 AM

How predictable...

Haters love to hate.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Oct 3, 2014 10:22:31 AM

After 6 and a half years, how's that "dominate" thing going?

Badly.
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E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2014 7:48:39 PM

Other manufacturers are also bringing hybrid models to market, including Porsche. The 2015 Cayenne S will be a plug-in model with a smallish 10.8KWhr lithium ion battery. The electric motor power has also been doubled.

All of this for an MSRP of just $76,400. Of course like Tesla buyers, the "value" of this vehicle isn't cost savings or fuel economy but bragging rights.

2015 Porsche Cayenne S hybrid
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 4:22:07 PM

"Has anybody heard any more details about the engineering behind these predictions since last April?"

No, they are not releasing any information until the NAIAS in Detroit (1/12 - 1/25) where it will make it's debut.
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E-Squirrel
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Message Posted: Aug 11, 2014 3:52:34 PM

From time to time, I do a google search on "GM hybrid vehicle news" or just "hybrid vehicle news", to see what pops up. On GM, the most recent news article that I can find is dated this past April, discussing the revised Volt. Since this is GM's best hybrid offering since this thread started more than six years ago, I was hoping that by now, some "details" beyond the predictions of "5 seats", "a larger battery" and "lower price", or "targeting the Prius V or Ford C-Max" might be available.

Has anybody heard any more details about the engineering behind these predictions since last April?
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2014 2:44:40 PM

"Maybe a little la-la-la-de-dah in the key of G-minor?"

Whatever you like ;)

"They're going to have to build cars that are better than the competition."

Realizing this fact would require you to get out from behind your Truth About Cars website - I won't hold my breath.

You'd be pretty hard-pressed to find poor vehicles these days - the last decade has been a true renaissance for the industry across the board.

But haters gonna hate!
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2014 2:24:22 PM

Charlie_H: "It would be more effective for GM to actually build better cars... I'm not holding my breath for that."

Weaslespit: "No need - they already are."

I doubt that GM is clued in any better than you... For GM to build cars that are merely better than their old lumps is not good enough. They're going to have to build cars that are better than the competition. They should have figured this out decades ago but somehow have not.

Weaslespit (the chorus): " But haters gonna hate..."

Maybe a little la-la-la-de-dah in the key of G-minor?
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2014 12:41:05 PM

"It would be more effective for GM to actually build better cars... I'm not holding my breath for that."

No need - they already are. But haters gonna hate...
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2014 12:23:52 PM

Weaslespit: "Haters gonna hate... "

You should set that to music. It would make a great jingle. GM could use it in their advertising to try and shame satisfied Toyota owners into buying their under-achieving cars.

It would be more effective for GM to actually build better cars... I'm not holding my breath for that.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2014 11:46:46 AM

"No but you will waste time explaining that you won't explain it, which infers that you actually have an explanation and therefore you "win" without having to actually try to explain anything.

But nobody is buying what you're selling."

Haters gonna hate...
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2014 11:39:15 AM

Weaslespit: "Like I said, I won't waste my time trying to explain it to you... "

No but you will waste time explaining that you won't explain it, which infers that you actually have an explanation and therefore you "win" without having to actually try to explain anything.

But nobody is buying what you're selling.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2014 10:07:32 AM

"So negatively they became the #1 auto manufacturer in the world. Sounds like your thinking is backwards..."

Like I said, I won't waste my time trying to explain it to you...
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reb4
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Message Posted: Aug 1, 2014 3:55:46 PM

Volt had sales increase in July....

"The Leaf sold 3,019 units and the Volt crossed the 2,000 sales level for the first time in 2014, hitting 2,020 sales. With Tesla also announcing it is delivering around 2,500 Model S EVs a month (but that's globally, compared to the US-only numbers for the Volt and Leaf we're talking about here) and Ford's plug-in vehicles selling well, we are certainly in a golden moment for EV sales.



For the Volt, the 2,020 units sold represents a 13 percent increase from July of 2013 even thought year-to-date sales are down 8.7 percent this year compared to last year. Overall, total Chevrolet deliveries for July 2014 were up eight percent compared to 2013, so the Volt was a bright spot for the Bowtie brand last month."

[Edited by: reb4 at 8/1/2014 3:56:11 PM EST]
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2014 3:34:33 PM

Weaslespit: "GM [Malibu] gained 3mpg. Bottom-line."

And it's still behind the regular Camry and can't even begin to touch the Toyota hybrids. But they have beaten their last generation of under-achievers! Hallelujah!
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2014 1:23:17 PM

"and how it negatively affected Toyota already..."

So negatively they became the #1 auto manufacturer in the world. Sounds like your thinking is backwards...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2014 1:21:59 PM

GM must be unique, because most businesses would consider putting out faulty product and losing market share as a bad thing...

I guess GM didn't learn much after going bankrupt...
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2014 11:29:57 AM

"So as insinuated by WS, Not only are recalls a good thing for GM, but there loss of market share also is indicative of a healthy GM....."

Absolutely. But I won't waste my time explaining to you why this is, and how it negatively affected Toyota already...
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Shockjock1961
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2014 8:46:33 AM

So as insinuated by WS, Not only are recalls a good thing for GM, but there loss of market share also is indicative of a healthy GM.....

Wow....

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 7/31/2014 8:49:51 AM EST]
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2014 12:42:28 AM

"Speaking of reality..."

GM gained 3mpg. Bottom-line.
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2014 11:59:25 PM

Weaslespit: "When faced with reality, haters gonna hate... ;) "

Speaking of reality... The vehicle has improved highway fuel economy. That has nothing to do with the idle-stop system and it's more than a little likely that the improvements that lead to better highway fuel economy also help with city economy. GM's own claim is that the idle-stop system is worth 5% more in the city. Given that the system is not used under a variety of circumstances (engine too cold, A/C on, slowing but not stopping), the 5% claim is probably an exaggeration once the vehicle is out of the EPA test.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2014 11:23:02 PM

"We're proud of GM; they continually strive to beat their own under-achievers."

When faced with reality, haters gonna hate... ;)
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Charlie_H
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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2014 5:41:23 PM

Weaslespit: "Yeah - never mind the additional 3mpg gain seen over the previous mild-hybrid..."

We're proud of GM; they continually strive to beat their own under-achievers.
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2014 5:04:20 PM

"First Toyota, and now VW have out paced GM sales to be decared the 1st and 2nd largest Auto manufacturers in the world. Looks like all those GM recalls did not have such a positive effect after all..."

LOL - VW has been rising for years; I don't doubt they will eventually pass Toyota. To attribute it to GM's recalls is beyond inane.

Where is the trophy for gross global volume? I didn't see one at the Ren Cen either...
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Weaslespit
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Message Posted: Jul 30, 2014 4:50:59 PM

"Actually it's hard to distinguish a joke from reality, when the joke hits so close to home to reality..."

So is this a joke or....
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