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Author Topic: Force surplus supply Back to Topics
kingstoncaddie

Rookie Author
Ontario

Posts:2
Points:4,740
Joined:Jan 2012
Message Posted: Sep 21, 2012 10:24:33 PM

The reason gas companies can raise their prices to whatever the want is because the control the supply.

Here is a way the poor consumer can fight back.

If everyone stopped filling the tank each time they stop for gas the system would result in a surplus.

Leave 15, 20,or 25 liters at the pump.

1 Million stops at the service station would result in 15 Million litres backlogged in the delivery system.

I dare say there are far more than 1 million fill ups per day so just think the impact if we all decided not to fill the last 15 litres.

Yes a bit of an inconvenience but just maybe it would work.

[Edited by: kingstoncaddie at 9/21/2012 10:26:54 PM EST]
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d_clark
Champion Author Grand Rapids

Posts:2,123
Points:880,235
Joined:Mar 2005
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 11:27:13 AM

So instead of filling to full, you leave out 5 gallons, this will not solve the demand problem. It will only force you to the gas station more often. You are not reducing demand, only delaying it.

The only way for you to reduce demand, is to quit driving as much, or get a more fuel efficient car.
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catfish99
Champion Author Wilmington

Posts:18,260
Points:3,095,520
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Dec 8, 2012 11:16:09 AM

Nothing backlogs in the system. You immediately hit a new stability point because consumption does not change. Gas in the system varies all the time by much more than " 10 or 15 million litres". See the EIA website for a look at it.
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skidsteer85xt
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:10,800
Points:785,625
Joined:Oct 2012
Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:54:06 PM

every one must work together or it wont work.
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pricewar
Champion Author Ogden

Posts:4,583
Points:875,705
Joined:Jul 2012
Message Posted: Sep 26, 2012 1:25:43 AM

a lot of people are doing this... not by choice
i see no change
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,813
Points:3,633,900
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Sep 24, 2012 10:35:09 PM

kingstoncaddie:

Even if you disregarded rumbleseat's link (and you shouldn't), are you really comparing the shut down of virtually all aircraft, commercial and private, when most of the United States was in a virtual "stand-down" following the September 2001 attacks to your suggestion about not filling up vehicles as a way to create a fuel surplus? A surplus would be created if and only if there were X amount of fuel and deliveries continued, adding to the supply already on hand. In September 2001, after the shutdown of aircraft, there weren't a heckuva lot of fuel deliveries being made, nor deliveries of anything else, adding to or creating any surplus.

Sorry, but the relationship you're trying to create between the actions when this nation was brought to an almost complete halt for a period (factories, businesses, non-emergency activities, etc.), theaters and restaurants closed, etc., as this country tried to pull itself together, in no way can be considered in the same vein as "everyone keep doing the same thing, don't change your driving, simply put a couple fewer liters or gallons, of fuel in your tank; don't buy as much during your weekly fill up, but because you're not changing your driving amount or driving patterns (as did happen in September 2001), and buy gas for the same amount of driving you always do, except buy it more frequently than you normally, do, so it appears you're buying less."

This is how you expect to get a "surplus" of fuel?
And you really expect this "surplus" to be countered with a drop in the retail price of gas?

Why would, if you're buying the same amount of gas as you always do in order to continue to drive the same amount as you as you always do, there be anything in the way of creating a surplus? I may be naive about a lot of things, but I can't see how your original suggestion makes any sense in any way. And I can't see how shutting down aviation following the September 2001 attacks (in order to preclude possible further aviation terrorism) relates to not filling up your gas tank.
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HeavyDuty_cache
Champion Author Omaha

Posts:15,293
Points:3,044,605
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Sep 24, 2012 1:39:37 PM

1. {If everyone stopped filling the tank each time they stop for gas the system would result in a surplus.}

How is this going to give a surplus? People will just have to fill up more often.

2. {Leave 15, 20,or 25 litres at the pump.}

What is leaving 15, 20 or 25 litres at the pump going to do? And where do we leave it? Do we pour it out on the ground?

3. {1 Million stops at the service station would result in 15 Million litres backlogged in the delivery system.}

Where did you get this information? Do you have a reference or link?



[Edited by: HeavyDuty_cache at 9/24/2012 1:40:41 PM EST]
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Mikeyl
Champion Author Cleveland

Posts:8,546
Points:1,769,280
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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2012 9:41:07 AM

Really?

Leaving "gas behind" in the tank will do nothing. You'll just be back to fill your tank in fewer days.

The ONLY way to reduce gas usage is to STOP USING IT!

Ride the bus. Take your bike. Walk. I know these are RADICAL ideas, but they work 100% of the time to reduce the amount of gas consumed.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2012 7:24:45 AM

"Just look at what happened the week of 9/11."

Wow, you got that e-mail too?
Pain In The Gas
Whenever you receive an email that urges you to immediately forward that mail to everyone you know, there is a very good chance the email is a hoax.
Please take the time to verify the message by doing a simple internet search before you send it on to anyone else.
In most cases when you take an arbitrary sentence from the message and search it out you'll end up with many hoax warning pages as the result.

This is from an Exxon representative:
"...Unless total demand is reduced for a particular market area, as opposed to shifting purchases to other companies' stations retail prices are unlikely to decrease - unless, of course, there is an increase in supply to that market area."
In other words, just like I said, just like other knowledgeable GasBuddies have said, if you want to influence prices, use less. Don't use less today and more tomorrow, use less ALL the time. If you can't be bothered actually conserving, you are part of the problem.
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kingstoncaddie
Rookie Author Ontario

Posts:2
Points:4,740
Joined:Jan 2012
Message Posted: Sep 23, 2012 11:21:22 PM

Yes, this would be a one time affect that would require a co-ordinated effort during a specific week.

Just look at what happened the week of 9/11.

There was an immediate spike in fuel cost but because there were no aircraft flying for a number of days there was a surplus of jet fuel. In September and October the price of oil fell from the Aug price of $27.45 to $22.18. A drop of approximately 20%.

Gas prices fell from an Aug price of .78cents/gallon to .60 cents a drop of approximately 25%

During September 2001 the total consumption of fossil fuels in the United States fell 11.2%. but by the end of 2001 this consumption was back to more than pre 9/11 levels.

Gasoline prices stayed below .78 cents/gallon till September of the following year and below $1.00 /gallon till January 2004.

The rational behind getting oil companies to cut prices is based on the effectiveness of short term supply and demand. If we can in the short term trigger a 10% surplus replicating the surplus generated in September 2001 perhaps (I know it's a big perhaps) we could influence the market enough to see prices fall.
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rumbleseat
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2012 6:25:20 PM

Reality.
The gas tanks in our cars are a huge storage system. If everybody always drives on the top half of the tanks, then switches to the bottom half, there will be a temporary surpolus - ONE TIME.
However, for every person who always has a full tank there is somebody else who doesn't, so the "surplus" surge would be much smaller than you think.
And, since you don't advocate using less, that "surplus" surge would be over in a matter of days, consumption would be back to normal, and it would be a mere blip in supply/demand figures, about equal to a snow day, and would have little effect on price.
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catfish99
Champion Author Wilmington

Posts:18,260
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Message Posted: Sep 23, 2012 12:35:47 PM

If you buy the same amount of fuel each month, you have done nothing to profit, storage, purchases or sales. Thanks for playing.
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ber5
All-Star Author Chicago

Posts:664
Points:132,445
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: Sep 22, 2012 10:20:07 PM

I boycott until I need more.. which is 2 x's a month...
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 22, 2012 7:50:25 PM

So instead of buying one full tank a week buy two half tanks a week?

Really? Did you think about what you wrote before during or after you wrote it?

You honestly think it would have an effect?
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1OILMAN
Champion Author Alabama

Posts:2,269
Points:221,160
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Sep 22, 2012 3:17:36 PM

Good grief kingstoncaddie. You really need to think just a little about this.

Trixie, do you see the same pattern I do? These folks are just to good to be true.
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maxstar
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2012 11:09:37 PM

kingstoncaddie: So you plan is to buy a smaller portion several times a week as opposed to a full tank, say once a week. How will that create a backlog?

What really helps is updating gas prices so that members can benefit by finding lower prices.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,813
Points:3,633,900
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Sep 21, 2012 10:44:02 PM

So if I understand this suggestion correctly, you're saying that people should buy less gas than than their gas tank can hold. Is that correct?

So that means, for example, instead of getting a full tank of gas, I should get 3/4 of a tank of gas, or a half tank of gas, and simply buy gas more frequently. Again, for example, instead of filling up once a week on Saturday, I should only get half a tank of gas on Saturday, and (because I'll need more gas), get another half tank on Tuesday or Wednesday. Then I get gas again on Saturday (after I've used the second half of my weekly usage). Is that correct?Gas

And the goal of doing your suggestion is hat because the gas station only sold me some gas, then it would get backed up and have no place to put the new delivery, so they'll...they'll what? So they'll sell gas below cost in order to have room for the new gas?

Maybe I'm missing something in this suggestion, and I know you're a long time Gas Buddy member (about eight months and already with 1,470 points), so I'm taking the suggestion seriously, but if you're not driving any less than you were before, and all you're doing is buying the same amount of gas over the course of your weekly driving, simply filling up more often than you are now.....maybe you can explain how that makes a difference. The only difference I see, and you said it, is there's inconvenience for the driver...or, actually, for the fuel buyer. Where is this "surplus" you're talking about; people, based on what you're saying are still driving the same amount, meaning they're using the same amount. It appears to me, and I admit to being naive about economics, is that the gas stations will have more in their tanks for only a couple days (if that long) until I get gas again; after the first time, it simply averages out. At worse, the gas station, if it doesn't need a fuel delivery, postpones the fuel delivery. That's not uncommon.
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