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Author Topic: Economy stinks Back to Topics
jhall3223

Rookie Author
Cleveland

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 4:25:19 PM

Ugh gas was 3.15 yesterday and now it's up to 3.45!
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 4:40:34 AM

Words of sense and sensibility, estroh!

I've owned Vanguard Energy mutual fund (VGENX) for decades. It's price performance isn't spectacular, but it sure cranks out dividends, which I roll over (re-invest).

I've been driving hybrid Camry taxis part-time for a couple of months. I was pleasantly surprised. Not everybody it will make sense for quite a few. Say, your basic suburban driver.

I don't see all-electric cars ever being viable. If natural gas keeps getting cheaper, they'll develop the infrastructure to deliver it. (That means those nasty evil oil companies will SELL it to us!) *

*Unless this Administration sabotages the technology.
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estroh
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 1:44:08 AM

Folks you want a solution to your high price gas woes:
1) Drive a car that gets good gas mileage. (Obvious and simple)
2) Invest in one of these so called "evil" drillers or oil producing companies. I have been doing it for years and it more than offsets the price of gas.
3) Drive with some common sense. Excessive acceleration, breaking means you were not concentrating on the traffic ahead and you just wasted gas.
4) If it is practical for you get an electric vehicle.

When I was 12 to 17 years old my father was stationed in Sembach AFB in Germany. Did you know that what they were paying for gas at that time is very similar to what we are paying now. So quit whining and adapt like the Germans have and other economies in Europe who managed to stay strong while others weakened.

Traffic_Cop- Here is an idea. Lets expand the use of natural gas to power more cars and trucks. Plus lets provide infrastructure in this country so those who wish to purchase a Nat Gas vehicle can.
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s6sputnik
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 12:42:36 AM

Does not!
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2013 12:02:13 AM

According to USA Today (hardly a right-wing organ), consumer confidence "plunged" in January: The "Confidence Index" dropped from 66.7 to 58.6. They're focusing on the increase in Social Security witholding ("FICA").

There are so many other things that are going on under the statisticians' radar, and things that are about to happen: For example, reduction or elimination of various deductions for middle-class families who itemize.

LOTS of food and retail employees are being limited to 29.5 hours a week. That means: a cut in pay, no overtime, And the EMPLOYEES themselves will be forced to buy their health insurance under Obamacare. Thus the employer doesn't have to pick up the healthcare cost.

Less money. A new expense (healthcare). And a big fat fine from the IRS if you don't participate, which means, good-bye tax refund, hello tax bill.

Oh, you thought these tax hikes would be only for the rich?

Thanks, Barak!

Tax Increase Hits Consumer Confidence
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gougenator
Champion Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 3:16:01 AM

ho hum year! :(
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happylilly
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2013 3:14:26 AM

if gas goes up it will stall the economy, we all know it makes the prices on other items go up and people will have less to spend on other thing. I think last year the limit was when it hit $4 something people pulled back on spending and the price went down. This should tell you something
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NickoliMB
Champion Author Manitoba

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 11:08:03 AM

The corporations dictate so much and as long as they remain and dictate greed things will continue to struggle.
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CHEAPERDREAMS
Champion Author Nevada

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Points:72,720
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:43:03 AM

frugal; the news media does not look at the effects of rising gasoline prices until it is to late. The same goes for the US Gov. All a bunch of idiots.
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frugalshopper
Veteran Author Syracuse

Posts:324
Points:41,120
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:35:43 AM

The economy is going to crash. it is already unstable. Higher gas prices equal higher prices of other products.
People won't shop as much so the economy is bound for another recession.
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CHEAPERDREAMS
Champion Author Nevada

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2013 10:26:27 AM

Get ready for the economy to get worse. Brent and WTI futures are both going up. Just because we have a surplus in oil and gasoline does not mean the price of gas will go down.

jhall,,,You, living in a speedway state, should be aware they control the ups and downs a lot more than people are aware of.
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Buddy2264
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 11:49:24 PM

As the economy improves the price of oil based fuels will go up. And then so will consumer goods and food based on how they are shipped. There seems no quick way for a recovery. But as we continue to cut back and only buy what we need or other brands, prices will change.
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 11:19:12 PM

HeavyDuty, I remember back in the 50s and 60s (I'm that old!) the doomsayers were talking about how the world would run out of oil before the end of the 20th Century.

And how overpopulation would doom masses of people to starvation.

And we'd run out of potable water.

Not to mention annhilation from nuclear war, nuclear winter, and now (ulp!) the latest fodder for scaremongers, "global warming."*

They keep discovering new and more hydrocarbons. And improved agricultural science keeps feeding more and more people with greater yields from ever-increasing farm lands. And now we find "Global Warming" ceased around 2000--if it was ever occuring.

It's a world economy, HeavyDuty. Some oil (and products) may be exported, but the more we drill here, the less dependent we are on the Middle East despots, Nigerian crooks, and a**holes like Chavez.

Not to mention some relief on our negative trade balance!

*Oh, yes--that term is no longer operative. The new fear euphemism is "Global Climate Change." Silly, ignorant me!
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HeavyDuty_cache
Champion Author Omaha

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 5:16:16 PM

traffic cop - I remember in 1973 before work began on the Trans-Alaska Pipeline the oil companies and government saying that it would provide all the oil our country would ever need and we wouldn't need imported oil any longer.

We will never be oil independent as the oil produced would be exported, providing more profit for the oil companies and their share holders.
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 2:36:35 PM

tijts1, my mom's stronger than your mom!
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 2:35:41 PM

Estroh writes, "The more who work, the more gas gets used."

And the more gas gets used, the more "Big ('evil'?) Oil" will produce! That's the free market at work, buddy--the law of supply and demand. It's elastic, and different categories of consumers and different producers will sometimes do well, and other times...not. But overall, the general prosperity of us all improves.

The problem is when the market is interfered with. Turmoil in the Middle East, hurricanes, refinery mishaps mess things up--sometimes long term, sometimes short.

What we have now is an Administration that is ideologically hostile to expanding hydrocarbon energy production, especially in the enormously rich Bakken fields. That alone would make us energy-independent for the foreseeable future. The alleged increase in oil production these last four years are mostly from the ("evil") Bush-era permitting.
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tjts1
Rookie Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 6:14:11 AM

Your mom stinks.
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estroh
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2013 1:42:11 AM

What does gas price have to do with the economy? Before the "great Depression" we were off to the races in the 3 dollar range and the economy tanked. If prices are rising and it is for no other reason related to supply it most likely is due to the economy heating up. The more who work, the more gas gets used.
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HeavyDuty_cache
Champion Author Omaha

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 11:23:34 PM

The economy is not that bad, it is recovering. Gas prices are set by the market. The government including the president (any president republican or democratic) has nothing to do with it.

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WEPSMAN
Champion Author South Dakota

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 10:09:42 PM

Gas rising here also.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 5:06:40 PM

jack4141 wrote:

" Hmmm "

What is that supposed to mean or add to the discussion? Or is it just posting for points?
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jack4141
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 5:04:32 PM

Hmmm
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 3:56:12 PM

Tough to keep politics out these days, GasBuddy. As Clinton said, "The personal is political," and I get kinda personal about my money.

Or lack of.

My point is that there's plenty of appropriate directions for finger-pointing. Liberals keep trying to make more things available for more people with "fiat" (imaginary) money. Republicans either get on board or don't do enough to stop 'em.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 2:13:22 PM

This topic, which had little to do with General Gas Talk to begin with (General Gas Talk is for general discussion about gas stations, fuel, oil, etc), and has moved into heavy political discussion, with very pointed and heated comments.

This thread should be moved to the U.S. Politics discussion category.
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PhilT08
Champion Author Buffalo

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 2:09:03 PM

And here all this time I thought Obummers "spend" our way out plan worked........"said with sarcasm"
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Boyrr
Champion Author Allentown

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 1:28:33 PM

Gas jumped 0.10 cents overnight at the Turkey Hill! It was $3.399 yesterday, and this morning it was $3.499!

And now we a stuck with NObama for another 4 years! I'd like to know who voted for this clown, because everyone I talk to says the same thing; "Not I."
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 1:24:17 PM

Don't know if I'll get anywhere with you, BuzzLOL, but I'll try.

Community Reinvestment was a minor act during Carter to eliminate alleged "red-lining," the spurious claim that banks were discriminating against minorities. Fact is, the credit ratings of so many inner-city residents just didn't qualify them for mortgages.

Glass-Steingel was repealed in 1995 (Clinton), which dissolved the line between investment and retail banking. It also allowed banks to reduce their capital reserves, so they could loan out huge amounts. If these went bad (as they did in 2008), they would then turn to the Fed (and taxpayer) for bailout. They were, after all, "too big to fail."

In 1993 There was a major change in accounting standards. Many types of debits could be ignored, or even reclassified as assets! This led to the fall of Enron and Arthur Anderson (2001, Clinton + Bush)

There was an attempt by Bush in 2003-4 to force Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to require more equity in new mortgages. This was killed (filibuster) by Chris Dodd (D-Conn)*. Instead of 20% down, all sorts of people could get mortgages with 0% equity. Fannie Mae kept buying crap mortgages--backed by the US Treasury. This lead to the sub-prime crash.

There's plenty of fingerprints all over this mess, BuzzLOL, both Dem and Rep. Have you noticed that the Obama Administration has NOT investigated anybody, and except for Bernie Maddoff, there have been NO prosecutions?

"Nothing to see here, folks, keep moving, keep moving,..." (and pay your new taxes.)

Bush's biggest failure was he should have let those big banks fail; this was a betrayal of Conservative principles.

*Chris Dodd now represents the Movie Industry as a lobbyist. Notice that Hollywood producers get special exemptions in the new Obama tax rates.

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BuzzLOL
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 10:59:01 AM

1. Stinking economy helps keep gas/energy prices down...

2. The EvilBushJr. Total Economic Crash was in early Fall 2008, not 2007...

3. It was mainly fueled by the EvilBushies allowing, for the first time in history, mortgages to be made to people who couldn't possibly make the payments in order to create the illusion of a booming housing market/booming economy... to get EvilBushJr. re-elected... of course, that couldn't last long, so the toxic mortgages had to be bundled together and hidden in stock market securities which their crooked friends rated as 'AAAA' investment grade stocks... that bought them till late Summer/early Fall 2008... when we were just hours from all banks, industries, stores, and businesses closing... requiring bailouts to keep the country and much of the world out of anarchy (total breakdown of law and order)... neighbors murdering neighbors for a slice of bread...

4. That mess was supposed to happen after Pres. Obama took office, but they couldn't quite hold it together that long... so the EvilBushies now act like the world was created on Jan.20th, 2009 when Pres. Obama took office and don't want anyone to remember what happened just before that...
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 10:30:18 AM

ZZZoop writes, "the 2007 crash as a cause involved a specific and small number of large financial institutions in only certain financial sectors of the U.S. economy."

First, I notice you don't suggest what DID cause the 2007 collapse.

What we had was a huge housing bubble, and false "growth" based upon money (increased housing values) that didn't exist. The causes for this are both various and nefarious, but were mostly caused by the "Community Reinvestment Act." It was begun in 1977 (Carter) and greatly expanded throughout the 1990's (Clinton). It expanded low-doc, even no-doc, and sub-prime mortgages.

So what happened is people who couldn't otherwise qualify for mortgages started qualifying for houses they couldn't afford (sub-primes). Lots of them "qualified" for low-start adjustable rates, then got squeezed into foreclosure as their rates kicked up.

More qualified middle-class people saw their valuations (supposedly) increasing, and bought more house than they should have, or used their property's equity for cash-out refi's.

Who's to blame? Lots of people. But it wasn't just a "small number of large financial institutions." The entire economy was a bubble.

De-leveraging is always painful. If only the Federal government would tighten its belt, like the rest of us have to!
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TMartin7101
Sophomore Author Providence

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 9:06:03 AM

Wow I can't remember the last time I saw $3.15 prices at the pumps around here. Even cash prices.
We're always .20 to .30 over the national average.
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valby
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 8:56:32 AM

Like a yo-yo.
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ZZZoop
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 8:54:47 AM

>>People fail to realize that fuel like gas and diesel along with banks are the two main culprits for the current economy being in this shape.<<

People probably fail to recognize that because its not true on the first count and marginally true on the second. Cite a reputable analysis that lists rising energy costs as a primary cause of the 2007 economic crash. While rising energy costs might contribute to a one or two tenths precent reduction in economic growth, it was not a primary cause of the current economic malaise. Regarding "banks," their involvement in the 2007 crash as a cause involved a specific and small number of large financial institutions in only certain financial sectors of the U.S. economy.
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MertieMan
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 8:34:33 AM

People fail to realize that fuel like gas and diesel along with banks are the two main culprits for the current economy being in this shape. Basically everything we buy and sell is transported in some fashion using gas and diesel which drives up the costs of all products.
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jes
Champion Author Pennsylvania

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 8:31:05 AM

That's life. Deal with it.
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MIT05
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 5:23:38 AM

$3.459 here.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 12:46:02 AM

I agree with GAS BUDDY. This is an ill-considered post.
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emtrob2012
All-Star Author Myrtle Beach

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 12:37:43 AM

yes it does
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OceanArcher
Champion Author Mississippi

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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2013 12:05:45 AM

Find some lower prices out there, and post them
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 6:24:17 PM

First, I'm nost sure what the topic name, "Economy stinks" has to do with the original post. You didn't say anything about the economy, only that gas went up in price.

Second, and while gas prices may have gone up from $3.15 to $3.45, as you said, if you check the Cleveland gas prices (on Gas Buddy), you'll see that while $3.45 is the high price in the city of Cleveland, the low price is $3.16, and the majority of Cleveland gas prices are in the $3.20s. And, if you'er talking about the Cleveland Gas Buddy posting area, the general high price is in the upper $3.40s Z(and yes there are a number of prices in the $3.50s (and two isolated stations apparently charging more than that), you're not saying anything about the large number of stations in the Cleveland area that are in the $3-teens, and several that are under $2.10 a gallon.

It looks like you're being very selective and talking about one isolated gas station somewhere in the Cleveland Gas Buddy area that raised its prices, and using that as your standard, but you're not saying anything about the other gas stations that, apparently, haven't changed prices, or which you can shop at that, are considerably lower in price than you're complaining about.

Sorry, but regardless of what I think about the economy, simply complaining about an isolated station, or for that matter praising one isolated station, carry any real weight. Not in my opinion.

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maxstar
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 5:51:04 PM

Welcome to Gasbuddy jhall3223.

Prices are up slightly around here too, but at least if you use the site on a regular basis you will be able to find the lower priced gasoline in the area. If you have a "smartphone" you can download the Gasbuddy app to find those prices while out and about.

Looks like you are off to a great start so keep it up. For all the ways to earn points see the link below as well as the FAQ link at the bottom of the page.

How to Earn Points

[Edited by: maxstar at 1/25/2013 5:52:09 PM EST]
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paullypuiu
Veteran Author Georgia

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Joined:Jul 2012
Message Posted: Jan 25, 2013 4:38:03 PM

it is awful
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