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Author	Topic: We need more rotaries, fewer traffic signals and four-way stops	Post a Reply Back to Topics

CoastalMaineiac Rookie Author Maine Posts:12 Points:900 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Sep 5, 2012 1:59:34 PM Ignore CoastalMaineiac Report Abuse "Hey kids, there's Big Ben, there's Parliament!" But seriously, a one-lane rotary is pretty easy to figure out. The only rule is the traffic in the rotary first has the right of way, but it keeps you moving. Multiple lane ones aren't as bad as the Griswolds would have us believe. Especially the ones they build now, in which the lane usage is essentially the same as if it were an intersection without the island, like this diagram shows: /sites/all/themes/wcroads/images/Roundabouts/roundabouts-nav1.jpg With the lanes marked that way, you can't get stuck on the inside lane. Capacity is increased quite a bit as well. It's a design that works, American drivers CAN and DO figure them out, and it doesn't involve anywhere near the amount of delay a traffic light requires. Less waiting, less idling, less fuel burned up, less emissions, and a yield sign is not susceptible to power failure.

CoastalMaineiac

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Maine

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Message Posted: Sep 5, 2012 1:59:34 PM

Ignore CoastalMaineiac Report Abuse

"Hey kids, there's Big Ben, there's Parliament!"

But seriously, a one-lane rotary is pretty easy to figure out. The only rule is the traffic in the rotary first has the right of way, but it keeps you moving. Multiple lane ones aren't as bad as the Griswolds would have us believe. Especially the ones they build now, in which the lane usage is essentially the same as if it were an intersection without the island, like this diagram shows: /sites/all/themes/wcroads/images/Roundabouts/roundabouts-nav1.jpg

With the lanes marked that way, you can't get stuck on the inside lane. Capacity is increased quite a bit as well.

It's a design that works, American drivers CAN and DO figure them out, and it doesn't involve anywhere near the amount of delay a traffic light requires. Less waiting, less idling, less fuel burned up, less emissions, and a yield sign is not susceptible to power failure.

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grim_farva Champion Author Kansas Posts:1,490 Points:327,675 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 3:04:49 PM Ignore grim_farva Report Abuse people still have a hard time understanding the idea of right-of-way in roundabouts
tdioiler All-Star Author Detroit Posts:892 Points:419,190 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 2:29:15 PM Ignore tdioiler Report Abuse And we can get rid of the red-light cameras!!!! BTW, rotaries only account for a 10% increase in accidents for the first 6 months of use as people start using them more. Then the number drops down to lower rates than with lights and turn-on-red options.
Saab93turbo Veteran Author Washington Posts:485 Points:85,235 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 2:01:58 PM Ignore Saab93turbo Report Abuse Some residential ones are way too small, just a round planter in the intersection
weddy11 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:1,732 Points:430,875 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 12:24:33 PM Ignore weddy11 Report Abuse Roundabouts have proven to cause many more accidents than the traditional lights and stop signs. By its very design, it is extremely stupid as proven by all the accidents if for no other reason. They are so small here in Arizona. If they were much larger they would be much safer. I still think they are a total waste. [Edited by: weddy11 at 2/24/2013 12:28:06 PM EST]
stlhawk All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:755 Points:403,175 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 11:21:46 AM Ignore stlhawk Report Abuse I love roundabouts but the general public in the US needs to be educated first. There are just too many stupid people out there.
herbiepopnecker Champion Author British Columbia Posts:13,601 Points:2,506,330 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 1:14:14 AM Ignore herbiepopnecker Report Abuse They're called roundabouts, rotaries are engines.
ricebike Champion Author New Jersey Posts:10,026 Points:1,854,745 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Feb 23, 2013 12:43:12 AM Ignore ricebike Report Abuse in my state, rotaries were being phased out in favor of "jug handles" and controlled lights
Low_Prices_2007 Veteran Author Fresno Posts:318 Points:124,820 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 2:17:04 PM Ignore Low_Prices_2007 Report Abuse i agree outside the city sure inside that just create a traffic nightmare and more accidant prone
gas_phil Champion Author Sacramento Posts:1,552 Points:125,540 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 1:59:54 PM Ignore gas_phil Report Abuse In that 5MB PDF file from DI (link in his message) it shows something interesting... we can't crash head on in a rotary/roundabout/circle. (Crashing head-on is the most painful.) Anyways I just remembered there's a second roundabout in the neighborhood. I'm pretty sure they use it for decoration only lol.
PithyOpiner Champion Author Stockton Posts:16,200 Points:1,596,570 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 1:42:44 PM Ignore PithyOpiner Report Abuse Fourway stops might be good out in the country. But, in an urban setting at rush hour, they are just plain stupid.
cogas1 Veteran Author Colorado Posts:389 Points:331,065 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 6:26:17 AM Ignore cogas1 Report Abuse They are called "roundabouts" in my area. I like one lane roundabouts, and think they make intersections safer, but the big ones can be confusing. Sensory overload for some, especially older folks.
MertieMan Champion Author Lexington Posts:14,783 Points:2,894,635 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 5:12:04 AM Ignore MertieMan Report Abuse Rotaries are fine if they are built right. We have two in this area and they are both too small with not enough lanes.
eyegotgas2 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:1,096 Points:256,205 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 3:34:13 AM Ignore eyegotgas2 Report Abuse As simple as they should be, so many people don't understand them. Four way stops are annoying but everyone understands them.
gas_phil Champion Author Sacramento Posts:1,552 Points:125,540 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 12:00:12 AM Ignore gas_phil Report Abuse They put one in the neighborhood. And some tall trees in that circle.
traffic cop Champion Author Boston Posts:1,241 Points:535,545 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:37:07 PM Ignore traffic cop Report Abuse beachd8, Rotaries probably won't work where roads of 3-4 lanes (6-8, both directions) are involved. They're not appropriate for every situation. But I've seen them connect irregularly angled roads rather efficiently. tractor-(semi)trailer rigs handle them quite well. They don't have to swing wide into opposite traffic for their tandems to clear the inside corner. (I still have a Class-A license.) A rotary may or may not take more land than a 4-way intersection. The purpose is to eliminate complex (and lengthy) traffic light sequences (various arrows left, straight, etc.) Signage can help, starting with "Yield to Vehicles When Entering Rotary."
Desoto49 Sophomore Author KW Posts:232 Points:475,665 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 5:06:22 PM Ignore Desoto49 Report Abuse All it takes is a few drivers who abuse them to become more dangerous than intersections
WEDDY Champion Author Phoenix Posts:3,239 Points:1,036,545 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 4:54:14 PM Ignore WEDDY Report Abuse They can work if large enough like in England. Here in Arizona where they are small, it is crazy. They are very dangerous and have caused for more accidents than the old tradional stop sign and signals. I don't understand the stupidity behing this type of traffic control.
jack4141 Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,975 Points:692,630 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 4:37:06 PM Ignore jack4141 Report Abuse My wife and I was on the east coast last year. Saw and travel thought some them. My wife hates them. She had to drive couple them. Me it didn't bother me. We don't have those around where we live,
DoctorV Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,026 Points:201,705 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:40:26 PM Ignore DoctorV Report Abuse Absolutely!
LeeLavergne All-Star Author Texas Posts:551 Points:122,050 Joined:Jan 2013	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:26:37 PM Ignore LeeLavergne Report Abuse we had two around here years ago but they are long gone now
PDN57 All-Star Author San Bernardino Posts:710 Points:134,870 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 1:11:25 PM Ignore PDN57 Report Abuse When I was in the UK I loved round abouts. When there is no traffic. In London with heavy traffic they where no faster than lights
sagnat Champion Author Riverside Posts:1,154 Points:307,510 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 12:58:24 PM Ignore sagnat Report Abuse Most folks here have no idea how to operating in a roundabout. I find them fairly dangerous and go out of my way to avoid them if I know there is one up the road. Too many selfish idiots on the road to try to negotiate a roundabout.
OceanArcher Champion Author Mississippi Posts:5,703 Points:1,327,400 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 12:42:26 PM Ignore OceanArcher Report Abuse If they are unfeasible for areas with heavy traffic, that would include most of the United States
beachd8 All-Star Author Orange County Posts:749 Points:113,785 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 12:07:41 PM Ignore beachd8 Report Abuse Oh, so they aren't used for arteries? So then they are used for what, residential streets? What advantage do they have for residential streets? Stop signs mean that law abiding citizens actually stop, which is a good thing on residential streets because it keeps the speed down. Not being in an area where roundabouts are common, I am confused. I have driven through some on road trips where streets joined at odd angles and ended up going around a few times before figuring out where I was supposed to get off and traffic let me move over, too.
traffic cop Champion Author Boston Posts:1,241 Points:535,545 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 11:18:33 AM Ignore traffic cop Report Abuse The larger the roads feeding it, the larger the rotary must be. If the roads coming in are two-lane (four-lane both directions) then you need three lanes in the rotary --and a very large circumference. At a certain point, it just isn't feasible of course, and you need a traditional interchange with designated turn-lanes, traffic signals with left-turn cycles, and all that. But the point of the rotary is, when possible, to eliminate the complexity of an intersection with all the waiting for various light sequences. The nature of these things is that there will always be compromises, and compromise means that everybody loses something--and gains something.
veloman Sophomore Author Connecticut Posts:196 Points:4,430 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Feb 18, 2013 4:39:17 AM Ignore veloman Report Abuse The ones on route 80 in southern CT have worked wonderfully for so many years. The amount of fuel, brake wear, and TIME saved is a lot. When I would bicycle through them, I simply speed up to 25-30mph (normal speed of traffic in them) and take the lane like a motorcycle. The tiny ones with bad visibility are dangerous. Must be engineered correctly.
beachd8 All-Star Author Orange County Posts:749 Points:113,785 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Feb 17, 2013 9:27:47 PM Ignore beachd8 Report Abuse Where do bicyclists ride through these? How many lanes do they have? I've only seen two of them relatively near where I live. I drove through one of them on Friday night for the first time in several years. The feeder roads are only one lane. I have the following questions: -How does that work when most of our main are 3 to 4 lanes in each direction? -How does traffic continue to flow at a reasonable rate? -How do semi trucks navigate traffic circles? -Isn't the cost to condemn land to reconfigure intersections into roundabouts just outrageous? Eminent domain can take forever.
Mr1lung All-Star Author Phoenix Posts:811 Points:164,150 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Feb 17, 2013 12:56:13 PM Ignore Mr1lung Report Abuse I like them
d_clark All-Star Author Grand Rapids Posts:925 Points:379,765 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Feb 17, 2013 12:55:03 PM Ignore d_clark Report Abuse no, they are stupid and not effective.
Snowchoux Champion Author Missouri Posts:1,003 Points:145,635 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Feb 17, 2013 12:14:36 PM Ignore Snowchoux Report Abuse No comment.
DI Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:20,185 Points:4,147,400 Joined:Apr 2001	Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 8:42:31 PM Ignore DI Report Abuse Just to clarify, there's a _huge_ difference between a modern roundabout and a rotary found in Europe or along the East Coast. This PDF file (5 MB) does a good job of illustrating them. Roundabouts are _not_ suited to high-volume roadways (AADT of 30,000+) or intersections where there's an unbalanced amount of traffic from one road (since vehicles in the roundabout have the right-of-way, traffic from a low-volume road only would be able to enter with significant delays). Roundabouts are purposely not wide so as to minimize the potential conflicts between vehicles (accidents).
traffic cop Champion Author Boston Posts:1,241 Points:535,545 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Jan 6, 2013 3:25:32 PM Ignore traffic cop Report Abuse Weddie and Mertieman have good points The rotary's purpose is negated if it isn't engineered right. It simply has to be sized appropriate to the traffic volume (and number of streets it serves). What's right for a small residential area won't do for an intersection that handles high commuter traffic. Done well, they can be nicely landscaped, too. A good place to put large sculptures or monuments.
ggg452 Champion Author Manitoba Posts:1,565 Points:330,850 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 12:55:32 PM Ignore ggg452 Report Abuse defensive driving dictates that as the driver you look out for yourself, your passengers and others out there... never assume anything.
nichols Champion Author Halifax Posts:6,841 Points:1,831,025 Joined:Aug 2003	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 12:45:45 PM Ignore nichols Report Abuse even the small are better then 4 way stops
MertieMan Champion Author Lexington Posts:14,783 Points:2,894,635 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 8:05:40 AM Ignore MertieMan Report Abuse We have two of these in Lexington, Kentucky and neither is built correctly. People here build them entirely too small for the amount of traffic, not like the English ones which are wide and work great. There have been numerous accidents here because most of these people don't know how to negotiate them correctly. I have almost been hit several times in one near my house. They even built one that only has a one lane flow of traffic, which is totally absurb.
traffic cop Champion Author Boston Posts:1,241 Points:535,545 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Dec 31, 2012 7:45:26 AM Ignore traffic cop Report Abuse We've had them for generations in New England, and they work. Like many things, they take some getting used to. One problem with four-way stops is that people do not necessarily go in the prescribed order (yielding, successively, to the right). A #2 car tries to squeeze through behind the #1 ("California stop"). People arrive at the stops simultaneously and don't know what to do. Etc. A rotary does require enough space and the right engineering, but, done right, moves traffic through at an efficient, moderate speed. It probably takes less real estate than a cloverleaf set-up, too. Obviously, it's not right for every situation. But for roadways that are typically less-than-interstate speed and traffic volume, they should work.
movrshakr Champion Author Florida Posts:1,323 Points:1,448,875 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 4:48:16 PM Ignore movrshakr Report Abuse . I don't understand what is bad about a cloverleaf design...causing accidents? You have to exit one road and merge into the intersecting road, but that is true of any similar highway design--other than stoplight versions controlling exit and entry by a right angle turn. Help me understand what is dangerous about it.
WEDDY Champion Author Phoenix Posts:3,239 Points:1,036,545 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 9:49:27 AM Ignore WEDDY Report Abuse The so called rotaries are a very bad idea. It would not be so bad if they were much bigger like in England, but here they are very small and dangerous. Does anyone remember the clover leaf. This is just as bad an idea and all the accidents this design has caused is a good example.
vulcan96 Champion Author Ohio Posts:26,896 Points:3,102,700 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 8:49:45 AM Ignore vulcan96 Report Abuse i agree.....
rulerMA Rookie Author Massachusetts Posts:75 Points:81,010 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 7:11:51 PM Ignore rulerMA Report Abuse There's a rotary at the Cape Cod that they changed into an intersection.
BartandLisa Champion Author Newfoundland Posts:2,140 Points:418,425 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 11:53:24 AM Ignore BartandLisa Report Abuse I fully agree That, or educate drivers on right of way rules
jrferrari All-Star Author Orlando Posts:652 Points:172,590 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 9:38:55 AM Ignore jrferrari Report Abuse @Houckster I didn't see you post until just now. Here is an example of a clover leaf.<br><br>Clover Leaf Bridge [Edited by: jrferrari at 12/20/2012 9:44:16 AM EST]
OceanArcher Champion Author Mississippi Posts:5,703 Points:1,327,400 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 9:00:47 AM Ignore OceanArcher Report Abuse Rotaries also take up a lot of ground. No problems in undeveloped areas of the country, but well-established towns and cities have no room for such things
OilerFan Champion Author Tulsa Posts:14,040 Points:2,446,600 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 2:58:31 AM Ignore OilerFan Report Abuse We have one in my area. Everyone hates it. Despite the one that was created decades ago, it never caught on.
J Eric Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:10,264 Points:2,069,980 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 1:01:09 AM Ignore J Eric Report Abuse Four-way stops cannot be synchronized while traffic lights can. That's one reason lights are more popular with city engineers. The only good Rotaries are those that meet upstairs, in the back room.
traffic cop Champion Author Boston Posts:1,241 Points:535,545 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:51:48 PM Ignore traffic cop Report Abuse What's so difficult or complicated about a rotary--or roundabout as they're also called? You approach it, slowing appropriately. You gauge the traffic that is in there, moving from your left to your right. You yield to that traffic, and proceed into the rotary. You "go with the flow" until you find your exit point. Then you exit. It's extraordinary that people find this complicated or dangerous.
13Octane Champion Author Tucson Posts:2,147 Points:332,165 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 2:52:57 PM Ignore 13Octane Report Abuse ok. i happen to like rotaries.
d_clark All-Star Author Grand Rapids Posts:925 Points:379,765 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 2:51:59 PM Ignore d_clark Report Abuse rotarys' are stupid most drivers are too stupid to figure out how they operate. Most places would require multiple lanes, which would make the issue worse.
MIT05 Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:4,162 Points:1,390,350 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 2:40:55 PM Ignore MIT05 Report Abuse Rotaries are too dangers.
movrshakr Champion Author Florida Posts:1,323 Points:1,448,875 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 12:33:06 PM Ignore movrshakr Report Abuse . We have one here...2-lanes in and 2 lanes out at each of the four outlets. I almost caused a crash, even though I know how to use these. A car was coming from left (of course) in the circle with right blinker on. I stupidly assumed he was exiting at my road. So, pulled on into the circle. HORN! no--he kept going "straight." I know better--don't know why I did it this time when I normally don't believe blinkers unless there is further evidence. Close call.