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Author Topic: Gas Station Myths... Back to Topics
travelzonecente

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2011 11:24:31 PM

What are some? I will try to answer you TRUE OR FALSE....

Myth 1) One Brand is Better than the other. FALSE It all depends how long the gas has been underground in the tanks... best place to buy gas is at a high volume site that turns its inventory at least once a day.

YOUR TURN

[Edited by: travelzonecente at 11/30/2011 11:25:24 PM EST]
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FullThrottle64
Rookie Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 11:09:23 PM

Myth 1) All gas is alike. [There is a tremendous difference in ethanol content, detergent additives, and octane - all of which impact either performance or engine maintenance requirements.]
Myth 2) Petroleum companies earn tremendous profits. [Government taxes contribute more to gas prices than corproate profits do.]
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Jan 14, 2013 2:59:55 AM

If you fill up while idling, you will explode.
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sjhman
Veteran Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jan 13, 2013 11:57:40 PM

It's better to get gas when the air is cooler
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Jan 13, 2013 11:56:34 PM

Gas price are going up
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Jan 13, 2013 11:54:38 PM

Gas prices are going up
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 12:21:33 AM

Gas is gas
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traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 7:03:41 PM

Old urban legend: premium gas gives you more power.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 11:24:30 AM

All gas is pretty much the same
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2012 10:36:27 AM

Gas is gas sorry to bring up a bad subject.. It is all the same...Marketing is all you are buying
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MIT05
Champion Author Massachusetts

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2012 10:18:30 AM

Premium gets better gas mileage.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2012 11:26:36 PM

Still branded gas is priced over the indies
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2012 2:18:32 PM

Prices are dropping...So far independent stations have the best prices
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2012 11:57:21 AM

Independent stations have lower prices right now than major brands.

[Edited by: travelzonecente at 11/4/2012 11:57:41 AM EST]
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Nov 1, 2012 9:49:31 PM

Costoc and Sam's club have the lowest unbranded price right now.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2012 10:36:43 PM

Costco has high turn over on fuel
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JCM54
Veteran Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Oct 23, 2012 11:11:26 PM

That's why I always buy @ Costco. Can't get a higher turn over than that.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Oct 23, 2012 8:24:56 PM

BP is killing it this month and in June... Record profits...
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joeym1044
Veteran Author Reading

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2012 2:39:37 PM

I always disliked hearing that certain stations "put water" in their gas. Big old myth.
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Texacoguy
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2012 2:36:20 PM

Both. Phillips66 Linden refinery has been making approx. $3.5 million a DAY NET PROFIT for the past 3 months!
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2012 1:15:09 PM

Oil companies making money when price goes up or when price is falling? What do you think?
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2012 8:20:16 PM

Finally gas prices are falling
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Oct 17, 2012 10:33:39 AM

Gas is gas...
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Oct 1, 2012 12:06:19 PM

I put it on a Dyno machine and the ZR6 is pushing 650 hp. Not a normal vet engine by the way.. After market toys on it.... Still putting 87 in it.
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JimBlake56
Veteran Author Akron

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Message Posted: Sep 25, 2012 12:56:51 PM

Modern cars control systems are supposed to allow "regular" pump-gas to be used. But there's a lot of cars that say they take premium; what it means is that it needs premium to achieve the advertised horsepower, or MPG or whatever. Not that it'll break the engine. If that ZR6 is burning regular, it's just making a few HP short of the specifications.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2012 10:55:04 PM

Breerr- I dont tell my customers to put 87 in their cars. If someone asks, my reply is what ever the manual says, but in my personal cars I have put 87 with no issues for last 25 years.

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RAB2010
All-Star Author Kalamazoo

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Message Posted: Sep 22, 2012 7:46:06 PM

Brands do matter. Mixes matter more. Bottom line: the integrity of the station owner / operator makes all the difference.
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 22, 2012 7:43:25 PM

You can use whatever octane you want to, that certainly is your perogative. However as a customer of your gas station if you told me I could use 87 in a car where the owners manual clearly called for premium fuel and then had issues with the car and had the warrenty voided because of the use of 87 octane fuel I can assure you I would come have a chat with you.

I cannot imagine as a business owner facing potential liability from your customers that you would ever recommend to them to use anything other than "what your owners manual tells you to use".

Mazda for one and BMW for another are very strict about the octane fuel you use. Use of 87 in a car that calls for premium will void the warrenty, I have seen it happen numerous times.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Sep 22, 2012 2:04:33 PM

WOW.... We own several vehicles cheap to very expensive.. and I have always put 87 in all of them. I really dont care what the Manual says. Funny when gas was over $5.00 dealers started telling everyone no problem in using 87 and some even changed the manual notices. Funny how that worked out.

I change the oil at my facility with Castrol Edge every 5,000 miles or so, and so far the only problem I have ever had with one of the cars is a bad sensor on a radiator and the usual break and tire changes.

Toyota 4 runner - 324,000 miles
SL 500 - 65,000 miles
Toyotal Land Crusier 45,000 mile
Ducati - 3,000 miles
Vet ZR6 - 4,500 miles
Navagaitor - 78,000 miles
Lexus - 4,000 miles

All get 87 ARCO gas... :)
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2012 7:50:57 AM

brerrabbitTX - thanks for that info. Nice to hear real facts from those inside the industry for a change.

Too many theories out here about what goes on behind the big fences so your input is much appreciated.
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hawaiiansupaman
Champion Author Hawaii

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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2012 12:37:44 AM


Good one RONALD777! That was thirty years ago. Now, it's called a gas station. They let you do ALL the work, smile and take ALL your money.
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RONALD777
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 20, 2012 6:24:13 PM

Myth #46 - When you pull up to a service station, a man will run up to your car, start filling it up, & then wash your windshield. After that he will check your oil and your tire pressure. Then he will smile & take less than $10 from you for filling up the tank.

[Edited by: RONALD777 at 9/20/2012 6:25:01 PM EST]
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 11:00:20 PM

scalhotrod wrote:
"Do different refineries make different grades on each run, of course they otherwise how would other distillates exist such a aviation fuel."

See when you make statements like this you prove to me even more that you don't really know what your talking about.

What is aviation fuel? There is av gas which is aviation gas, then there is jet, and there is diesel and then there is JP8 which is military jet fuel.

On a single refinery run or at least first pass each of the products derived from oil will fa;; out of the crack tower at different places. Distillates (diesel and jet) come out in a different place from gas. You can then reprocess streams using different methods to extract additional products based on what is most profitable at the time. So based on your crude stream in you can optimize for distillates or gasoline. You pass the secondary streams the reformers to extract the additional product.

Part of the further refining process is when you make your premium and regular octane fuels.

Then even to produce road ready diesel you have to use hydrogen in a process to extract the sulphur because EPA requirements require Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel to have no more than 15 ppm of sulphur in order to be sold.

Refining is a little more complex than you make it out to be.
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 10:31:46 PM

"Brer- actually we are both wrong, isn't the current octane actually 85/90, with a 2point boost from Ethanol blending..? I should also add that with my 34/66 ratio I was already taking into account for the finished E10 blend product, if it was blended at the pump.. I know that I'm not running a 50/50 blend for my midgrade...Thx"

Close but not as simple as I said earlier, I was trying to keep it simple. Ethanol adds about 2 octanes, but the lower the octane the more the addition so they actually make about a 84.5 octane and at that level ethanol adds about 2.4 octanes while at 90 octane it drops to adding only about 1.9.
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Texacoguy
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 10:08:41 PM

Scalhotrod, one more thing I would like to point out. If you had any idea what you were talking about, you would know that Florida has NO refining capacity period, and ALL of our fuel has to be imported from the Gulf Coast, or from Abroad..
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Texacoguy
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 7:04:17 PM

Brer- actually we are both wrong, isn't the current octane actually 85/90, with a 2point boost from Ethanol blending..? I should also add that with my 34/66 ratio I was already taking into account for the finished E10 blend product, if it was blended at the pump.. I know that I'm not running a 50/50 blend for my midgrade...Thx

Scalhotrod - The refineries that supply us here in Tampa operate exactly the same as the ones in Ca., with the exception that our fuel is a completely different spec that yours. ALL of the Gulf Coast refineries are 2 grade refineries, as far as gasoline goes. And so are the Salt Lake refineries, as well as the California refineries.

[Edited by: Texacoguy at 9/19/2012 7:11:11 PM EST]
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twt
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 6:16:37 PM

I buy where the price per gallon, is cheapest.
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 5:37:41 PM

General Motors
General Motors offers a few cars that specifically use premium gasoline. The V-8 cylinder, 6.2-liter engine Yukon sport utility vehicle is a popular vehicle produced by the company, and premium gasoline is the recommended fuel for it. The company also produces the smaller four-cylinder, 2.4-liter Chevy Cobalt, which uses premium gasoline. Another vehicle with recommended premium gasoline is the Chevy HHR, which is a smaller, boxier SUV.

Mazda
Mazda offers multiple vehicles that recommend premium gasoline. The MX-5 sports car and the CX-7 SUV crossover are two Mazda cars that use premium gasoline for fuel. The Mazda RX-8 sport coup and the Mazda 3 require premium gasoline. Both of these vehicles strive for racy appeal and high performance. If premium gasoline is not used in these cars, you risk voiding your warranty.

Volkswagen
Similar to Mazda, Volkswagen stresses a sportier performance with their cars. Because of this, VW offers multiple vehicles that require premium gasoline. These cars include the compact Eos convertible and the sporty GTI. Even the more standard Jetta and Passat have versions that VW recommends use premium fuel. VW's R32, which the company retired in 2008, also uses premium gasoline. VW also recommends premium gasoline be used with the larger, crossover-SUV Touareg.

Volvo
Volvo produces a variety of vehicles that it recommends use premium gasoline. The Volvo S40, for instance, does not require premium fuel, but the company does recommend it. However, 87-octane gasoline can be used without damaging the vehicle. Similar Volvo models that use premium fuel are the S60 and the S80.
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 5:34:26 PM

As far as the arguement that you only need one octane of fuel for all cars then you need to tell that to a lot of automobil manufacturers because a lot of them print in the owners manual that the car requires premium fuel. Those cars run on a higher compression and need the delayed flash point associated with the higher octane fuels. If your owners manual says your car will run on regular then that's wht you should put in it because it is not adjusted to utilize the higher octane fuels, but you accertation that higher octane fuels are not needed for any cars is wrong again.
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brerrabbitTX
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 5:26:47 PM

Well scalhotrod, I can tell you that despite what you professor in college may have told you he is wrong. Refineries make seperate runs for 87 octane vs 91 or 93 octane. I work in the fuels division of a majr oil company and interface several times a week with petroleum engineers who work as refinery scopers optimizing refinery runs based on price and market and can assure you 100% that they make two seperate and disticint octanes of fuel.

In order to boost the octane of refinery runs you need to process and manufacture or buy from another refiner VGO (vapor gas oil). This boosts the octane fuel to the 91/93 level. During summer periods when the national requirement for fuel is that it not exceed 9.0 lb RVP and in some areas such as Atlanta, and Kansas City where the EPA requirement is 7.0 lb RVP and other areas where the requirement is 7.8 lb RVP to accomplish this they remove butanes from the oil stream to lower the RVP. They store the butanes because as you get past September 15 (end of low RVP season) and move towards winter where the RVP gets as high as 15.5 lb RVP and is needed for cars to run right in colder weather one of the ways they boost the octane is to reinject the stored butanes into the refining process.

Sellers of fuels do not merely put "additives" in 87 octane gas to make a higher octane gas. If your professor actually worked in the industry he would know that. Gas as it is produced out of the refinery is stored in shipping tanks that will either pump into pipelines or onto barges for delivery to terminals for distribution. Prior to being released for shipment samples are sent to the lab that exsists at every refinery and the fuel is certified for numerous tests including octane values. Those records are sent to the EPA and are available at every refinery in the nation for review at any time by the EPA. The product is then ususally periodically tested again at each terminal upon receipt. At every terminal in the country there is segregated tankage for diesel, jet, rul, and pul as well as ethanol. There are also tanks for additive. The additive tanks hold the various brands additives that load from that terminal. So at one terminal there might be additive tanks for Shell, Chevron, Exxon, and a generic additve. As the gas is loaded onto trucks for delivery the additive particular to that brand is injected as the product is loaded onto the truck. Unbranded sites get the generic additive, branded sites get brande additive based on what they sell.

Now if it was additive that was adding the octane to 87 to make it 91 then why would every terminal in the nation have segregated tankage for regular and premium?

Actual practice in the industry makes your assertation incorrect.

As far as mid grade fuel goes the mix is not straigh 50/50 if blended at the terminal and put into segregated tanks at the station. The blend is more like 61% regular 29% premium amd 10% ethanol. At the stations the blend may be 50/50 if blending at the dispensor but can vary based on the products being blended.

The reason for that is that when you inject ethanol into gasoline a 10% blend will raise the octane about 2 points. So by default if you blend 87 with 10% ethanol the octane achieved will be 89. In some areas to offset this refiners are starting to make 84.6 octane regulars that must be blended with ethanol to achieve an 87 octane product. In the PNW the premium made by the refiners is actually a 90 octane and when blended with ethanol it becomes 92 octane.

Lastly every state randomly tests retail sites for octane content and if your octane does not test out to what you pump stickers say you can be fined or closed till you fix the issue.

I can say without hesitation that refiners make two different octanes of fuel and they do not achieve it by putting additives in the gas.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 1:30:16 PM

You guys forget that the US general Auto industry production cars all will work on 87. 89 & 91 is mostly marketing. There is no car that really needs 91 to run. It is all pr. I have a SL 500 Mercedes that I have always put 87, and it runs fine.
Most important thing about buying gas make sure you go to a busy station that has high volume turn over so the gas is not in the tank as long and the pump filter has been changed every quarter.

If the operator cares and keeps the station clean, the gas is just fine. 87 is the only gas you ever need plus the additives are for tracking only. Trust me, I am in a middle of major lawsuit with 1600 BP sites in a class action suit regarding fuel and vendor issues.

Gas is gas
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scalhotrod
Rookie Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Sep 19, 2012 12:31:42 PM

Hey Tex,
Since you're a station owner, I can understand why you would object to most of what I stated, but I received my information from an executive at Chevron who was a professor of mine in college.

Granted, yes there are geographic differences, but here in CA versus the other side of the country (Florida) the refineries make one grade and enhance it with additive.

Do different refineries make different grades on each run, of course they otherwise how would other distillates exist such a aviation fuel.

By the way, if your mid grade mixture calculation is correct (here in CA its 50/50), the over-charging in your area is even worse since most stations price mid grade as an average of the prices or higher.

The reality is that offering multiple grades is more marketing strategy than it is a necessity.

ONE grade is how the industry started in the early 1900's, then we needed lead added for engine lubrication. But when when all fuel became unleaded, what was the point of keeping the various grades?

Because it gave the fuel companies a marketing tool.

Unfortunately I have to agree with your last statement, it probably would not affect pricing since its based on that geographic region's "ability to pay", its how all fuel prices are set from station to station and why prices can vary so much by just a few miles.

If you own multiple stations, you already know this. But the general public does not.
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nichols
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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2012 11:53:42 AM

best to buy from a station that sells a lot of gas to avoid problems with gunk that is in the holding tank, also a good idea not to buy at a station where they are just getting a fresh supply of fuel meaning gunk in the holding tank is being stirred up.
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Texacoguy
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2012 11:45:24 AM

Scalhotrod. Incorrect. There are 2 grades, regular and premium (octane rating will vary due to geographical/altitude requirements) If it was just an additive, why would the refineries have 2 runs? wouldnt they just get the additive and add it to the regular? Furthermore, since you state that ALL gas is 87 octane, do they use an octane reducer additive in the Rockies, where regular is 85? LOL

Also, midgrade isn't always blended at the pump. It can also be splash blended at the terminal if the station doesnt have blender pumps.

Also, FYI, your blending logic is flawed. Midgrade is a 66%/34% blend of regular and premium, respectively. The fact that Costco doesnt sell midgrade has nothing to do with their sales projections, a meter is a meter, and it will count the gallons no matter what. I would tend to believe that it is more of the case that the midgrade generally is a dog, and just does not sell.
Back to the blend issue, a station that has blender pumps does have a price advantage versus a non blender station of about 2.5 cents per gallon here in the Tampa market..

Bottom line, even if there was no midgrade and no premium, it wouldn't have much of an effect on pricing

[Edited by: Texacoguy at 9/18/2012 11:46:33 AM EST]
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scalhotrod
Rookie Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Sep 18, 2012 10:33:22 AM

there's only ONE grade of gas, its all 87 octane.

So called "Mid grade" doesn't exist until you pump it. Its a mixture of low grade and high grade. So if you pay more than the average of the two prices (low grade plus high grade divided by 2) you're being ripped off.

Premium grade is just 87 octane with an additive just like you can buy at any hardware or auto parts store.

WHY do even have multiple grade any more, there's no need.

Imagine how prices would drop if the gas companies didn't need the infrastructure to support 3 grades?

Costco doesn't even sell mid grade because it throws off their sales projections. Only 2 grades are delivered, so you only have 2 choices on their pumps.

What if all stations just had ONE GAS?
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Texacoguy
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Sep 17, 2012 3:33:51 PM

It is possible, but not likely. I would NEVER sell anything out of my pumps that was not at least the posted octane.
However that being said, there were a few times in 2001-2002 when I was running an unbranded location in NJ, and the wholesale spread was less than a half cent between regular and premium. I DID put premium in the regular tank on more than one occasion, but that is perfectly legal (after all, the decal on the pump states MINIMUM octane is XX)

It is more likely that someone is putting unbranded fuel in the tanks at a branded location. That happens more often than a lot of people think!
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liveforboats
Rookie Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Sep 16, 2012 9:24:01 PM

Is it possible that I will be paying for premium and actually get regular? I'm sure this question has been asked a zillion times-sorry. Also, I really believe high fuel prices is the root cause of the US recession. Sorry if I sound dumb.
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Sep 16, 2012 9:11:32 PM

In California Branded stations sell more
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hawaiiansupaman
Champion Author Hawaii

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Message Posted: Sep 15, 2012 11:28:32 AM


Do branded locations sell more gas than independent ones per site?
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Sep 14, 2012 7:18:08 PM

Brands are running $.20 on average above the independent sites
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travelzonecente
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Sep 7, 2012 10:35:56 AM

Fuel price gouging occurs when price is trending up. Not so.... If you look at the spot report... Most of the gouging occurs when price is trending down. Big Oil Companies delay lowering prices..... BP is the biggest of them all... In June they were $.30-.60 over the spot market in southern California.
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