Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    9:43 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: Talk back to us! > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Cash/CC difference feature: Mobile app is now asking for data. Back to Topics
CampKohler

Champion Author
Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 6:05:42 PM

A station I reported presented a popup asking if the cash and credit card pricing was different and offered an alternative to answering the question in the form of a "Continue" button. I chose the latter. After reporting stations around the corner, I returned in minutes and reported it again to see if the popup would return. It didn't.

I scurried home and looked up the station's MSL Edit page to see if the feature had been checked, but it had not. I concluded that appearance of the popup is not 100% dependant on the state of the feature box (else it would have asked the second time as well). In other words, it is not continuing to ask about a particular station until it gets the answer. I don't know whether or not it will ask about a station that has the feature checked,* so I will have to pay good attention to the popups to answer that.

If one answers the popup in the positive, will it cause an edit in the feature? The way to find out that, should a popup appear, is to monitor a station that should NOT have the box checked (so that it should be and will be not checked), answer in the positive and see if it checks the feature box. (And then uncheck it after the test if it does.) If it does edit the MSL, will it leave a record of the member answering the popup? The latter might happen, because, last I looked, checking the feature without changing any other data changes the feature, but it did not create a new version in the HOC (that was reported here).

What's New does not explain the workings of, nor mention this app question. If anyone finds out further information on its behavior, I would like to know it. My feeling about how the popup will be used is that it will prove to be an irritant to be bypassed while using the app in the car (as are all the popups I have seen).

----
*It would do that if GB was gathering statistics (in the manner of a poll) vs. simply asking once and being satisfied with the answer.

[Edited by: CampKohler at 6/30/2013 6:10:02 PM EST]
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2013 8:06:06 PM

"With respect to questions about grades/fuels, I think better data would be gathered by simply recording what people report instead of asking them a separate question. "

Not necessarily.
Someone may report one grade and not all, or an unusual pattern of grades...OR, they could be one of the one's posting false prices. The questions might make them think twice about their posting habits.

As to the wording, I would suspect some might need to be adjusted, and I would not be surprised if the GB team is looking at the responses and evaluating how effective different questions might be vs others.
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 24, 2013 5:10:31 PM

With respect to questions about grades/fuels, I think better data would be gathered by simply recording what people report instead of asking them a separate question.
Profile Pic
plastic
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:47,692
Points:3,016,200
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 22, 2013 3:24:52 PM

The questions are pretty stupid. For example, "Can you tell if prices for cash and credit are the same?"

Well yes I can tell so I'll mark "Yes".
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 20, 2013 3:18:53 PM

I have noticed that the "Continue" answer for app-asked survey questions (as a alternative to "Yes" and "No" answers) has now been relabeled "I Don't Know". That makes the third answer clear and is a good idea.
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 5:21:09 PM

"Again the question is whether the box is missing because there is no price (diesel not reported) or because there should be no price (diesel feature not checked in the MSL)."

I guess you didn't read what I posted CampKohler. The last example had a diesel price posted but that price didn't show up when you click on the station. The same applies to the other examples I listed.

I just checked diesel on a station in the MSL I know doesn't carry diesel and it was added with dashes. I then unchecked diesel on this station in the MSL and the diesel box was removed.

The price doesn't matter. The purpose is the grade doesn't show up if it isn't checked in the MSL.

So the question has been answered. No scurrying, moseying or sauntering necessary.

Yeah I knew that but didn't have the time to recode it. Sorry.
Profile Pic
Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,909
Points:2,816,010
Joined:Sep 2006
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:58:15 PM

CK wrote > Again the question is whether the box is missing because there is no price (diesel not reported) or because there should be no price (diesel feature not checked in the MSL). I will look for examples at my site.If the diesel feature is not checked in the MSL, the box will not appear on that particular page. I tested this by reporting a price for diesel for a station that does not have diesel checked in the MSL. That box did not appear on the station features but the price still showed up on the map and by performing an area search using the full site.
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 3:30:39 PM

OK, I see it now (I mentally saw the dashes as the diesel, because that was what I was expecting to see).

Again the question is whether the box is missing because there is no price (diesel not reported) or because there should be no price (diesel feature not checked in the MSL). I will look for examples at my site.

PS: Rather than link to a station, it would be better to save a screen shot of any example and link to it in a photo album, because by the time I (or some other reader) gets around to using the link, the prices could have changed, ruining the example for the purpose intended.

PPS: Your link didn't form because the apostrophe is not allowed in a URL and must be encoded as "%27", e.g. [‌L=Sam%27s_Club_Gas_Stations/Tarentum/40631/index.aspx]Sam's Club[‌/L]. (Slipsies: I'm sure you are aware of this.) It is a discovery for me that GB is looking for this and doesn't produce a finished link if it finds a character that must be encoded, but hasn't been. I'll have to add that little nugget to the links guide.

PPPS: When I no longer can scurry, I'll mosey or perhaps saunter. NEVER GIVE UP!



[Edited by: CampKohler at 7/10/2013 3:32:17 PM EST]
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 2:09:31 PM

More evidence

This Station doesn't sell diesel and a diesel price was posted.
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 10, 2013 6:08:39 AM

A little more evidence.

http://www.pittsburghgasprices.com/Sam's_Club_Gas_Stations/Tarentum/40631/index.aspx

I can't get the link to post correctly.

This station doesn't sell mid-grade yet a price was reported for it and it hasn't expired yet. Notice there is no mid-grade box showing even though there is a mid-grade price incorrectly posted.

I have since removed the price.



[Edited by: scoutmaster at 7/10/2013 6:13:02 AM EST]
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 5:32:36 PM

The dashes are for the premium price that hasn't been reported or the price expired. THe dashes have nothing to do with it being reported incorrectly. That station (Exxon) DOES sell permium, but not diesel. There is no box for diesel. The other station (Gulf) does sell diesel and there is a box for it.

Examine away CampKohler. Don't forget to scurry when you find something!
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 4:53:35 PM

I don't think the dashes speak to MSL connection. You would expect to see the dashes if the station was being reported correctly, but the acid test is: Will the dashes appear for a station that does not sell diesel AND there has current (falsely-reported) price that is still within the site's price age limit?

However, just out of curiosity, I will examine this carefully the next time I see a falsely-reported price that has not yet aged out.

[Edited by: CampKohler at 7/9/2013 4:54:20 PM EST]
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 9, 2013 6:16:52 AM

It appears tying the MSL to the grades you can post for a station is getting closer to reality. If you click on the station name from the price board, you will see something like this. This station sells diesel. This one doesn't. Notice for the one that doesn't there is no price box at the top.
Profile Pic
kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:22,821
Points:4,135,980
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Jul 8, 2013 1:34:34 AM

CK: Google search on a couple of keyword combinations is coming up empty. I'll let you know if I find it again. Maybe the previous person who made such a claim will see this and repeat it.
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 7, 2013 6:59:51 AM

Again, the differences about the APPS and the FSL have been reported before. I have reported users for posting closed stations before, and the mods have come back to indicate they contacted the member to fix their FSL. An edit to the FSL can seem to throw mine off.
.
Being able to turn off the questions was mentioned by Don in that other post and has been mentioned several times in the thread. It seemed to me that it might have even asked me if I wanted to receive the prompts so that it wasn't hard to figure out I could turn them off.
.
It seems to me that the following items need some attention:
1 - trying to bring more similarity between the different platforms APPS - which is not always possible or easy.
2 - Tying the MSL to the grades (and price structure)
3 - Tying the FSL to the MSL
4 - Ban members from access that purposely fudge data
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 7, 2013 6:26:57 AM

"Reporting a station that is closed would be valid reason to ask the question about grades, however, because the app does not allow reporting a closed station, it would seem that the situation should never arise."

CampKohler,
On an Android, if you have a closed station in your FSL, you can post a price for it. You can also turn off the Station Prompting so the questions go away.

If the station recently closed, the signboard could have prices still on it. Plus, for the app users, there doesn't need to be a price posted for them to post one.
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 6, 2013 2:39:33 PM

Scrap wrote: "Why not ask me about something that I am not already reporting?" My theory is that this new program is not looking at price reporting to gather data; it is looking at the answers to the popup questions. If that is correct, it would seem to be a poor source of data, because, in my opinion, there will be a great number of members who will consider it a distraction and will put more emphasis on bypassing the question than providing good data. I think your question is to the point, because if they just looked at the reporting statistics for any give station, they could easily verify which grades are correct; if 100 price reports include premium and six don't, that obviates the need for a popup AND utilizes full site reporting, too.

I agree completely about asking if the station is closed (vs. gathering data about what it [doesn't] sell).

SM: Reporting a station that is closed would be valid reason to ask the question about grades, however, because the app does not allow reporting a closed station, it would seem that the situation should never arise. But, hypothetically, say it did. In my experience, the number of closed stations being reported is statistically insignificant. Further, since closed stations typically do not display prices, what prices would be reported?

kwzh: Except for temporary shortages, the idea of stations not selling regular seems fantastic to me. If you wanted to make money selling gas and had only one tank, what you sell, regular or premium? There's no contest. If you could provide a link to those saying the opposite, it would be interesting to make a few calls and verify if it is true or if they are just blowing hot air up our skirts.

[Edited by: CampKohler at 7/6/2013 2:45:41 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,909
Points:2,816,010
Joined:Sep 2006
Message Posted: Jul 6, 2013 11:51:32 AM

SM: "If you are trying to post a price for a station that is closed in the MSL asking if the station sells gas would be a valid question."

If the station is closed, you will not see it using stations near me, not report a price and not see the question. The only people who could see the question would be people using a FSL on an app. Not all platforms have FSL capabilities, and even for those users using a platform that supports FSL capability not all people will use the FSL, so the question would be asked of a very small percentage of people posting prices.

If a station is marked as closed in the MSL, wouldn't it make more sense to ask a direct question like "This station is listed as closed in the MSL, are you sure it is open?" than to ask in a cryptic manner "Does this station sell regular gas?"? That is how it treats prices that it thinks are too high, it asks a direct question "This price seem high, are you sure?". Wouldn't it make sense to ask this question regardless of how the price is being reported? i.e. Shouldn't it be asked of website users as well as app users?

That said, I am highly skeptical that the purpose of asking if a station sold regular gas was to alert the user that the station is listed as closed in the MSL.



[Edited by: Scrapheap at 7/6/2013 11:57:48 AM EST]
Profile Pic
kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:22,821
Points:4,135,980
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Jul 6, 2013 12:44:57 AM

When I raised the issue some months ago, the responses indicated that there are indeed stations that do not sell regular gas. Rare, of course. I don't know that I've ever seen one.
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 5, 2013 7:16:13 AM

SM: "If you are trying to post a price for a station that is closed in the MSL asking if the station sells gas would be a valid question."

Good point.

Or, maybe the time frame since a price was last posted was much longer than usual so they want to make sure it should still be marked open.

[Edited by: TxJeans at 7/5/2013 7:18:17 AM EST]
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 5, 2013 6:59:41 AM

It makes more sense to ask if the station sells the grade you are posting a price for than asking if the station sells a grade you aren't posting a price for.

CampKohler,

If you are trying to post a price for a station that is closed in the MSL asking if the station sells gas would be a valid question.

[Edited by: scoutmaster at 7/5/2013 7:02:57 AM EST]
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 4, 2013 9:55:09 AM

Scrapheap: "Well, it will ask you if it sells regular gas. Here is a question though, does it make sense to ask me if the station sells premium gas if I am reporting a price for premium gas? Why not ask me about something that I am not already reporting? "

We have been complaining about apps awards chasers and other posting prices that are for grades not offered. So, yes, I can see reasoning behind it. If you are reporting prices you haven't validated and you get a question, it just might make you think that the system is monitoring your posts and will at some point determine you have surpassed the allowable number of "fast fingered" mistakes and might be award chasing with invalid prices.

But, back to the original topic, at least one of the APPs has been asking said questions since last fall at least. And, Don answered the questions in that previous thread.

So, if they chose to write the functionality to hit all grades, rather than just some, that is their decision. I do agree that it seems rather worthless to ask about "regular" as I would suspect that most if not all stations offer regular, but hey, stranger things have been reported.
Profile Pic
Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,909
Points:2,816,010
Joined:Sep 2006
Message Posted: Jul 4, 2013 9:17:55 AM

TxJeans wrote > Seriously, what a slap in the face to the PTB at GB! They are validating the fuel grades. I don't think you have to worry about if this station sells gas.

Well, it will ask you if it sells regular gas. Here is a question though, does it make sense to ask me if the station sells premium gas if I am reporting a price for premium gas? Why not ask me about something that I am not already reporting?
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 9:43:26 PM

The only thing that needs to be soothed it CampKohlers ability to start topics. Most of the ones he starts are pointless and as we have found out, fabricated.

Moderators, please close this topic.
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 9:11:31 PM

You seemed to need to be soothed. (I tried my best.)

That Shell is regularly reported as it is on a major intersection in this county. I personally report it twice a day, four days a week and do not recall ever have seeing it old. However, to test this theory, I will read the station twice a day for, say two weeks to see what the reporting traffic is like. But we'll see how it looks.

Of course there is no way for me to tell what others provide as answers, but then why would there be any answers—changing or not—if the question wasn't asked and, according to theory, there would be no questions if the station was reported frequently. Chicken and egg. I have never seen anything reported there other than all grades together, probably because this station, from "time remoreal," has grades 10¢ apart and is therefore a no-brainer when it comes to catching the prices and memorizing them if memory space needs to be devoted to the 76 across the street that uses irregularly-spaced pricing.


[Edited by: CampKohler at 7/3/2013 9:15:04 PM EST]
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 6:42:15 PM

@CK - you asked questions and I tried to provide answers from what we know and you come back with "there, there" - Seriously?

CK "I just got asked if a station had premium. What's next, "Does this station sell gas?""

Seriously, what a slap in the face to the PTB at GB! They are validating the fuel grades. I don't think you have to worry about if this station sells gas. You are just plain being SILLY.

CK "By "...spotty performance...." I meant reporting prices in conflict with the data gathered by the popups. For example, for the last two days, a nearby Shell has had diesel reported when they don't sell it."

I think that was addressed sufficiently by Don already in the other thread:
Don: "If you update the same stations every day you will probably rarely ever see these prompts, but you could get another prompt only when the answers to the questions start changing (which is based on number of users answering the questions)."

[Edited by: TxJeans at 7/3/2013 6:43:52 PM EST]
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 4:20:08 PM

"For example, if Bob's Gas was consistently misreported, that would be something to work on."

Define misreported.

"For example, for the last two days, a nearby Shell has had diesel reported when they don't sell it."

The way to stop this is to tie the MSL to what grades can be posted. If diesel isn't checked, it can't be posted. This feature is in the works.

And with CampKohlers last paragraph, it's time to shut this one down.


[Edited by: scoutmaster at 7/3/2013 4:21:22 PM EST]
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 2:02:42 PM

I just got asked if a station had premium. What's next, "Does this station sell gas?"

GB: I would not expect performance particulars to be provided for "...every gas station in the Master Station List," but rather only for troublesome stations. For example, if Bob's Gas was consistently misreported, that would be something to work on.

By "...spotty performance...." I meant reporting prices in conflict with the data gathered by the popups. For example, for the last two days, a nearby Shell has had diesel reported when they don't sell it. And since diesel leaves spots on the ground near the pumps... oh, wait, that would be a LACK of spottiness... Oh, nevermind.

re the last paragraph, pick one of these alternatives:
1. Skip this topic altogether
2. Press the Ignore button
3. Use flashing eye blinks (vs. the normal occulting). Eyelid openings of no more than 10 ms. in length should ameliorate the mental impact of dense prose that exceeds your personal tolerance.

TX: There, there, now.



[Edited by: CampKohler at 7/3/2013 2:08:52 PM EST]
Profile Pic
Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,251
Points:3,492,410
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 11:32:31 AM

This is certainly not a topic that's got the participation of a lot of members (other than the "regulars", and not many of them) but I'm amazed at the depth and detail of concern, as well as the depth and detail of the responses (other than my own, which indicated I hadn't seen the pop-up - at least not that I remember any time recently.

What's amazing is how much is being discussed and what's being asked for (when CampKohler wrote: "Perhaps someday we might have these statistics made visible to us showing that this station or that station, based on the app replies, has not had the data correctness confirmed, but instead has had a suspicion raised about a certain station's MSL record and/or price reporting. Or aggregate statistics showing how lousy we are compared to the people at... I would be very much in favor of such a visible record reve4aling spotty performance and having weak MSL data exposed so that we can correct it.")

I, for one, can't see any reason why we need to see or be provided these "statistics" for (apparently) each and every gas station in the Master Station List. Maybe I'm reading too much into what's being asked for, but if Gas Buddy management wants to compile statistics for whatever reason, I probably could not care less if they shared their statistics with us or not.

As far as I'm concerned, and again I'm finding much of the discussion over my head and over my comprehension, all that needs to be done regarding data revealing "spotty performance" (whatever that means) is maybe an occasional pop-up or other reminder that "updating the Master Station List provides useful information regarding gas stations."

As for "On the other hand, we could get a visible pat on the back for doing a bang-up job all these years (not holding my breath on that one)", I don't think that Gas Buddy needs to provide a visible "Thanks, Charlie; thanks Angela; thanks WeNeedLowGasPricess in Juliet, etc." I guess I'm satisfied with what Gas Buddy management wrote a decade ago: "Thanks to the dedicated help of all the volunteer GasBuddy members the websites continue to grow and help more consumers locate low priced fuel." If anything, the frequency of seeing our names in print (especially in the more substantive discussions - showing our responsibility for and concern about the website - seems to be recognition in itself).

But, again, I'm just amazed at the depth and detail this thread has gone to, and for reasons I cannot understand.


[Edited by: Gas_Buddy at 7/3/2013 11:37:54 AM EST]
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 7:21:07 AM

I think CK is over thinking the entire issue, and the GBPTB will reveal what and when they want as far as how the system is working and what they intend to do with the information.

I find Don's answer from the other thread answers much of CK's questions.

CK "I scurried home and looked up the station's MSL Edit page to see if the feature had been checked, but it had not."

Don "After a certain amount of feedback, stations features will be automatically added or removed."
And
"...if everyone is being honest, you shouldn't see the same prompts ever again (for quite some time, at least, I'm sure there's a "double check" included in the prompts somewhere)."

CK "If one answers the popup in the positive, will it cause an edit in the feature? "
This one was not clearly answered by Don. I would hope it would indicate that the change was made by GB or the system or something.

CK "The way to find out that, should a popup appear, is to monitor a station that should NOT have the box checked (so that it should be and will be not checked), answer in the positive and see if it checks the feature box. (And then uncheck it after the test if it does.) If it does edit the MSL, will it leave a record of the member answering the popup? "

This would be purposely messing with the data for one's own intrigue.

Don: " if everyone is being honest, you shouldn't see the same prompts ever again (for quite some time, at least, I'm sure there's a "double check" included in the prompts somewhere)."

CK: "What's New does not explain the workings of, nor mention this app question. If anyone finds out further information on its behavior, I would like to know it. My feeling about how the popup will be used is that it will prove to be an irritant to be bypassed while using the app in the car (as are all the popups I have seen). "

Really GB doesn't need to explain every little detail to us. And, as far as the irritant...

DON: "There's no solid "set total limit" or anything, but it is reasonable to say that users may receive up to 2 prompts in a day, the set maximum is one prompt every 6 hours - but this can also depend on your posting habits."
And
"If you update the same stations every day you will probably rarely ever see these prompts, but you could get another prompt only when the answers to the questions start changing (which is based on number of users answering the questions)."
And
"'You do have the ability to turn them off."

CK " Short of periodically examining every station's record in the MSL, can the site members tell which stations need to be evaluated for the new features, especially for stations not normally encountered?*"

This goes back to the statement made previously by GB PTB that discussed how the MSL was built initially and how they expect with the increased membership it will be maintained. It seems that these questions will provide them the data to maintain or at least see if they need to take a different approach.

CK "Perhaps someday we might have these statistics made visible to us showing that this station or that station, based on the app replies, has not had the data correctness confirmed, but instead has had a suspicion raised about a certain station's MSL record and/or price reporting. Or aggregate statistics showing how lousy we are compared to the people at podunkgasprices.com, a sort of an automatic Big Brother (but in a good way)"

Seriously, I would have no expectation of them to share proprietary information or take up bandwidth with this sort of information (especially based on past history). At least now they are putting stuff in the "What's New" which had languished for some time.

[Edited by: TxJeans at 7/3/2013 7:22:49 AM EST]
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 3, 2013 6:14:33 AM

"SM: No, I didn't. If you read carefully, you will note that the second trip to the station did not produce another question, so I had no opportunity to see if the MSL was edited."

I read carefully. The first question garnered a pop-up question. The second didn't. Your quandary was

"Does the MSL gets edited by virtue of answering the question?"

and you posted

"I scurried home and looked up the station's MSL Edit page to see if the feature had been checked, but it had not."

hence your question was answered.

[Edited by: scoutmaster at 7/3/2013 6:16:08 AM EST]
Profile Pic
kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:22,821
Points:4,135,980
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Jul 2, 2013 9:07:46 PM

I like to believe that the questions are going to be used for determining which users of the app can be trusted to answer questions honestly.
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 2, 2013 8:12:35 PM

@ CK -
In the C/P of Don's answer from the other thread --

"After a certain amount of feedback, stations features will be automatically added or removed."
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 2, 2013 2:02:45 PM

SM: No, I didn't. If you read carefully, you will note that the second trip to the station did not produce another question, so I had no opportunity to see if the MSL was edited.

----

I got a new one today asking if the station at which I had just reported a mid grade price AND that has mid in the MSL, really indeed sold mid grade. This gives me the inkling that these app questions are not part (at least yet) of some grand scheme to polish the data to a high sheen. Rather it is a statistics gathering tool designed to check on the job of doing our own polishing, which we should have been doing all along.

Perhaps someday we might have these statistics made visible to us showing that this station or that station, based on the app replies, has not had the data correctness confirmed, but instead has had a suspicion raised about a certain station's MSL record and/or price reporting. Or aggregate statistics showing how lousy we are compared to the people at podunkgasprices.com, a sort of an automatic Big Brother (but in a good way). I would be very much in favor of such a visible record reve4aling spotty performance and having weak MSL data exposed so that we can correct it. On the other hand, we could get a visible pat on the back for doing a bang-up job all these years (not holding my breath on that one).

If the above theory proves true, should some MSL data be revealed to be questionable, and should we scrutinize the MSL record and find that it is accurate, then what we would be scrutinizing next is just how inaccurate the replies to the app questions are in the first place. In other words it might show that we are doing just fine for the normal stuff, but miserable on answering app questions. Then the whole app survey business would come into question—is it of any value or just a time waster? Wouldn't that be interesting?

Of course, all of this speculating could be dispensed with immediately if GB would simply explain what the program is designed to do, how it works exactly, what it's ultimate purpose is, and, from time to time, how well things are going. ("Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain; he's hiding there for a reason.")

[Edited by: CampKohler at 7/2/2013 2:07:29 PM EST]
Profile Pic
ziyulu
Champion Author Austin

Posts:10,675
Points:2,061,900
Joined:Aug 2007
Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 1:19:04 PM

I got it yesterday on the iPhone.
Profile Pic
scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

Posts:94,543
Points:3,711,065
Joined:Mar 2003
Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 11:28:32 AM

"But we still don't know the following:
• Does the MSL gets edited by virtue of answering the question?
• If so, does it register by whom (create a version)?
• Short of periodically examining every station's record in the MSL, can the site members tell which stations need to be evaluated for the new features, especially for stations not normally encountered?"

Actually, you do know the answer to the 1st question, CK. You addressed this in the OP.

The pop-up question you received was addressed by a couple of the moderators (CC & Don) in November 2012.
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 10:57:17 AM

Wow! Six months? That's a loooong time between questions. Good info, TX.

But we still don't know the following:
• Does the MSL gets edited by virtue of answering the question?
• If so, does it register by whom (create a version)?
• Short of periodically examining every station's record in the MSL, can the site members tell which stations need to be evaluated for the new features, especially for stations not normally encountered?*

----
*Out in the boonies, one might think that rarely visited stations should be evaluated for the two new features on the get-while-the-getting-is-good theory, but it would be a waste of time if they already had been gotted.
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 12:00:56 AM

@kzwh - actually, that question was reported by sagnat on 12/20 in the other thread.
"Last message I saw was "does this station have different prices for cash and credit". The station I was posting does in fact have two prices listed. "

Maybe they got enough yes answers to decide to put the box on the MSL...
Profile Pic
kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

Posts:22,821
Points:4,135,980
Joined:Jul 2001
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 11:53:25 PM

Makes sense. Now that Cash/Credit is available as a checkbox in the MSL, it occasionally gets asked just like any other checkbox feature.
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 10:39:36 PM

From Don on that thread:

"Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 11:31:31 AM
Don :

I'm not overly familiar behind the makings of the station feature prompts, but I did make an inquiry with one of our developers asking about the prompting limits.

There's no solid "set total limit" or anything, but it is reasonable to say that users may receive up to 2 prompts in a day, the set maximum is one prompt every 6 hours - but this can also depend on your posting habits.

If you update the same stations every day you will probably rarely ever see these prompts, but you could get another prompt only when the answers to the questions start changing (which is based on number of users answering the questions).

After a certain amount of feedback, stations features will be automatically added or removed.

A user won't be asked the same question for the same station within a 6 month period minimum.

Here's a good way to think about the prompts if you're finding these questions inconvenient, if everyone is being honest, you shouldn't see the same prompts ever again (for quite some time, at least, I'm sure there's a "double check" included in the prompts somewhere).

You do have the ability to turn them off.

I hope this explanation helps."
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 10:38:24 PM

Previous discussion:

Nov 23, 2012 - RichWLIN :Recently, I've been getting an occasional follow-up question when I report prices using the app. I've only seen this two or three times now, and I'm paraphrasing, but the question asks "Does this station sell regular gasoline?" Inasmuch as I have just posted the price of regular when this additional window pops up, it seems redundant and out of place.
Profile Pic
TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

Posts:6,810
Points:707,450
Joined:May 2004
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 10:27:20 PM

I'm w/out a SP right now, but I seem to remember these coming up on the Android when I was using it. I also seem to remember being able to turn it off in the Options, but I could be wrong. Can't check since my SP is DOA right now.
Profile Pic
Byte_Doctor
Champion Author Akron

Posts:6,113
Points:1,176,765
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 10:14:03 PM

I'm running the latest app on an iPhone 5 and have also started getting the questions recently - does station have separate cash & credit pricing, does station sell diesel, does station sell premium. Those are all that I recall seeing but it hasn't happened very often so I don't know if there are more questions or not. Minimally invasive, but the first one did take me by surprise.

Oh, and I don't know if the answers edit the MSL directly or not, haven't checked yet - I'll try to remember to do so next time it asks.

[Edited by: Byte_Doctor at 6/30/2013 10:15:05 PM EST]
Profile Pic
CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

Posts:12,348
Points:1,946,765
Joined:May 2007
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 10:04:35 PM

GB: Good idea. iPhone 3, with the app updated a day ago (which is probably why I am seeing the popup for the first time).

Scrap: I am wondering what you mean by "...these types..." I have seen popups before for asking about "liking" the app, reviewing the app, etc., but never one asking to supply data about a particular station, so I am looking at this popup as unprecedented. Has any of the popups you experienced asked for data on a specific station and did you just do an app update?
Profile Pic
Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

Posts:16,909
Points:2,816,010
Joined:Sep 2006
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 9:31:36 PM

The android app has been asking these types of questions for months.
Profile Pic
Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:29,251
Points:3,492,410
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 8:49:09 PM

The pop-up has not appeared using the app on my iPhone 4S.

You may want let others know what phone/system you are using as a point of reference.
Post a reply Back to Topics