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scoutmaster

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Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 4:22:51 PM

I have asked CK many times why not all suggestions were added to his wiki. When I asked this before, I was told ALL suggestions were added regardless of their value. When I asked this time, I was told to check the Wiki for the rules. This is from CampKohler's wiki.

"TOPICS QUALIFIED FOR THE LIST:
Improvement Topics:
Topics which suggest or imply an improvement of the operation, organization, etc. of the full site or mobile apps will be listed regardless of the evaluated worthiness of the ideas proposed. This provides a complete list of links."

Aren't all fixes improvements? What else is included in etc.?

"Non-improving Topics:
Topics that suggest ideas that are already in effect will not be listed. Only topics that suggest improvements not yet implemented are qualified."

What about suggestions for things that have been there all along but the member posting the suggestion can't find or figure it out? These have been added.

"Qualifying, but Non-resident Topics:
Qualified suggestions that are found in forum categories other than Suggest A Website Improvement or Talk Back to Us will likely not be noticed."

Valid."Composite Topics:
For the near future, any one topic in this category that suggests multiple improvements not easily indexed identically may be listed only compositely as "Improvements....""

Valid.

And it appears CampKohler doesn't mark all the suggestion he has added in the topic in these forums.

And I'm still wondering how GB feels about this one off?
REPLIES (newest first) Topic is locked
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2013 1:06:55 PM

I started it in SAGBI category since the wiki deals with suggested improvements. The mods moved it here. And since it has degenerated to the same level as the wiki itself, it should be shut down.

Moderators,

Please close this topic.
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2013 12:51:58 PM

I'm not sure why this is even being discussed here, since it has no bearing on the operation of this website and is not utilized by the site's operators to track or discuss or plan any site improvements. At best, this topic should be moved to Off Topic, but with some of the more inane comments of late, perhaps it should be moved to Just For Fun.
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SUVFan
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2013 9:18:04 AM

"Rehab is for quitters."
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2013 6:17:59 AM

You can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.

Be alert. The country needs more lerts.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Jun 20, 2013 4:45:25 AM

I heard some months ago that Lincoln has been doing well in theaters. Historically, this has not been the case.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 19, 2013 6:20:04 AM

Yup the Abbott and Costello routine is a classic! One of the best! Making fun of tragedies is not good humor.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2013 7:44:00 PM

Thanks, SUV!
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2013 1:56:17 PM

And "I've been taking steroids" gets signed with a big MLB contract.
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SUVFan
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2013 12:10:11 PM

Plastic, that's two positions. "I don't know" plays third while "I don't care" (well, the link says it was "I don't give a darn") is the shortstop.
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plastic
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jun 18, 2013 9:14:19 AM

"I don't know and I don't care.
Oh that's our shortstop!"

-Abbott and Costello
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 17, 2013 6:38:16 AM

Well you have to know to care but you don't have to care to know. I might have that backwards. But I don't know if I care.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2013 1:30:09 PM

kwzh: Knowing and caring are two entirely different things. :-)
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2013 6:10:12 AM

A rule? Did I say there was a rule? I don't think I said there was a rule.

I appreciate good humor, kwzh. I just don't see any here.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Jun 14, 2013 3:48:03 AM

There you go again, CK, making jokes when you already *know* that SM doesn't appreciate humor -- regardless of its nature -- when it has your screen name attached to it.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2013 7:41:23 PM

I originally thought that there could be no local members on gasbuddy.com, which would mean that you couldn't get any more "backwatery" than that. However, SUVFan writes that he has found 71 of them. How they got there is another story that SUVFan is theorizing about.

>> "...if GB would want this forum to be accessed they would have had a link on their home page."
What is the penalty for breaking a rule that only you see? Oh, well, no matter, because before we would have to pay it, we would have to go to the imaginary court, be convicted by the imaginary jury and be sentenced by the imaginary judge. Of course, by that time we would have removed the imaginary saw from an imaginary cake, sawed through the imaginary bars and made our way to the imaginary forum at gasbuddy.com. Oh, wait, that is a REAL category. (This is so confusing. Where's Michio Kaku when you need him?)

But you have to admit, this is one fun topic. :-)




[Edited by: CampKohler at 6/13/2013 7:47:11 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2013 6:19:07 AM

Yeah I understand how to get there TxJeans, but if GB would want this forum to be accessed they would have had a link on their home page.

I read what you posted, CampKohler. If the local discussion group is "backwater" why does each site have a local discussion group at the top of the category list?
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 13, 2013 5:07:45 AM

SM: If you had read carefully, you would have seen that I said, "...the local discussion group is backwater," meaning the category, since there are no members assigned to the site. (Gas_Buddy was spot-on.)

>> Where is the forum?
>> All the links point to gasbuddy.com which doesn't have a forum.
All STL links (unless there is a defect needing correction or the topic has been deleted by GB), lead to a topic. How is that "not in a forum?"

OK, I guess it's time to lock this topic. Oh, gosh, did I say that out loud? Have I been brainwashed? (This is what happened to our POWs in Korea, isn't it? I..have..promises..to..keep,..and..miles..to..go..before..I..sleep.)
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 10:50:46 PM

Scoutmaster - go to the forums at your site. Now go to the address bar and replace your site name with gasbuddy. If you go straight to GasBuddy.com you can't but if you change the url from homesitegasprices.com to gasbuddy.com you can apparently.

The direct way tried to force you to pick a homesite, but not the back door way.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 10:12:14 PM

scoutmaster
"Here is the main Gas Buddy site. Where is the forum?"

I assume CampKohler referred to the link at the top of the page, Blog, as a forum, as you can open the various "topics" and discuss them,. Backwater, while I think isn't a good choice of words, is presumably being used by CampKohler as "being out of the way" of mainstream forum discussion, and not referring to people as rubes,

(For those that aren't familiar with the word, it means "unsophisticated person from a rural area" or a "bumpkin", and used by carnival workers to refer to customers at the games as suckers). I doubt that's how CampKohler was using the word.)



[Edited by: Gas_Buddy at 6/12/2013 10:13:00 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 7:10:55 PM

Here is the main Gas Buddy site. Where is the forum?

So, CampKohler, the locals on each are backwater rubes? Is that another attempt at humor?
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 4:33:19 PM

SUVFan:
"I think a lot of us would like to know more about that work list and that the site would benefit from sharing it's top 100 with us."

scoutmaster:
"I would love to know what's on their list and in what order."

It might be interesting to know what they're working on, in part to see if it coincides with any of our suggestions, etc., but I don't really need to know more about their work list any more than I need to know what Apple's working on, let alone the priority order, but I surely don't need to know "its top 100".

What I would prefer would be that Gas Buddy, prior to implementing changes, would be for Gas Buddy to "make available" the change to a core group of members (for discussion's sake, core members of the Suggest and Talk Back categories, as they've demonstrated an on-going interest in modification, improvement and/or change) to get a "real world" review before the change is finally implemented, but I neither expect that nor think it's necessarily useful (in light of assumed in-house knowledge and experience); just a "would be nice" is all.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 4:16:11 PM

SM wrote: "...there is no forum at gasbuddy.com." Not true. There is only one forum for the entire system, and it is as accessible and usable at gasbuddy.com as at any other site. If not there, what site should links go to? pittsburghgasprices.com? One of the others?

The only real difference in the forum there is that the local discussion group is a backwater, being inhabited only by those members who wander into it by chance or curiosity. This is summed up brilliantly by dam-pup in this OP.

There are three ways to request changes to the STL. Don't be afraid to use them.


[Edited by: CampKohler at 6/12/2013 4:21:42 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 1:08:32 PM

"I think a lot of us would like to know more about that work list and that the site would benefit from sharing it's top 100 with us."

I would agree SUVFan. I would love to know what's on their list and in what order.
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SUVFan
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 12:22:57 PM

>If you read my 2nd post in this topic you will see the reason I placed it here.<

Scoutmaster, I reviewed that post (Jun 10, 2013 4:35:27 PM) and found this: "[I]t specifically deals with this category but is not an improvement suggestion."

As I understand this forum to be a place to suggest GB improvements and not the category itself, I have to stand by my original post.

I see it has been moved to TBTU, so the mods must agree it belonged elsewhere. My guess is that the last sentence of the lead post is what saved it from being moved to Off Topic: "And I'm still wondering how GB feels about this one off?"

Don also advised that, "We do have our own project management system where suggestions, errors, and bugs can be tracked and followed, these are also assigned accordingly and sorted by priority or urgency."

I think a lot of us would like to know more about that work list and that the site would benefit from sharing it's top 100 with us. Of course it's their site, but I think that, though we usually disagree about exactly how, all of the regular participants in this category and SAGBI all share a genuine common interest in improving the site.

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Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 11:34:51 AM

"Off topic is probably the right place for this discussion, if it is going to be a stand alone thread, though I see it is mostly just a carryover from a whiteboard conversation."

Agreed.

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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 10:53:55 AM

SUVFan,

If you read my 2nd post in this topic you will see the reason I placed it here.
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SUVFan
Champion Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 9:14:56 AM

As the lead post of this thread is basically a set of questions directed not at any core function of the site but simply has questions for another GB, I'm wondering if it belongs in SAGBI at all?

Off topic is probably the right place for this discussion, if it is going to be a stand alone thread, though I see it is mostly just a carryover from a whiteboard conversation.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 6:10:56 AM

It's the elephant in the room kwzh.

I'm pointing out the inconsistencies in the wiki. Not all suggestions are included even though CampKohler once posted all would be regardless of merit. CampKohler doesn't mark his suggestions like the others letting everyone know they have been added. There are links in the wiki to topics that no longer exist. All the links point to gasbuddy.com which doesn't have a forum.

My point is if you are going to build something like this then it needs to be maintained properly. CampKohler's wiki isn't. It's broken and either should be fixed or blown up.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Jun 12, 2013 1:31:05 AM

scoutmaster, I believe you've said that you see no value in this project, even if all known imperfections were to be addressed -- so, why do you care about any of those questions? It would be simpler for you to ignore its existence.

On the other hand, if you do care about being a "good citizen" and improving the state of the wiki for the benefit of the people who might actually use it, then "CampKohler doesn't mark all the suggestion he has added in the topic in these forums" is not a useful comment. Either point out the specific instances, or fix them yourself if you like, or ignore them and let them drop out of history. But don't play the "I know of a bug and I won't tell you what it is" game.

Btw, do you think that Don's answer contradicts anybody's prior assumptions? Near as I can tell, it's exactly what everybody expected such an official response to be.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 4:17:58 PM

CampKohler,

Would you please expound on your 1a answer?

1b. If nothing else is included intentionally, why the etc.?

2. Too bad? Doesn't that fly in the face or your guidelines?

5. It's your wiki that you started and that you maintain. It's your responsibility to keep it current.

6. Don answered.

Your humor is lacking, CampKohler.

Don,

Thanks for chiming in and validating Gas Buddy's position.
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Don
Moderator
Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 3:38:34 PM

GasBuddy does not endorse CampKohler's wiki page as it's own, so be careful to not confuse this with being an official log of GB development.

The enthusiasm he puts into collecting suggestions and organizing them into his own site is outstanding, but the suggestions amalgamated into the wiki page has little effect on what the site developers/owners choose to.

We do have our own project management system where suggestions, errors, and bugs can be tracked and followed, these are also assigned accordingly and sorted by priority or urgency.

-Don
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 3:34:03 PM

Gas_Buddy wrote >> ...if he doesn't think a suggestion should be included (despite his "general" guidelines), that's his decision.

It wouldn't be right to publish guidelines and not adhere to them. That would certainly be fair grounds for criticism. If nothing else, 1984-like, the wording of rules can be changed so that actions already taken conform to them. Seriously, if anything is amiss, please advise so it may be corrected.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Jun 11, 2013 3:24:51 PM

Answers to burning questions/statements:

Part 1a: No
Part 1b: Nothing else is included intentionally. If anything non-qualifying has been included by error, please notify and it will be removed.

Part 2: Too bad. One can't be everything to everybody. If someone else would like to build their own version to serve unmet or perceived unmet reader needs, a copy of the wiki code is available upon request to give them a starting point not requiring as much a steep learning curve.

Part 3: Oh, good.

Part 4: Oh, good again.

Part 5: If a topic has gone inadvertently unmarked, anyone can pitch in and post a link therein using the same language.* Six months from now, it will probably begin being unnoticed forever (or until it ages off the forum).

Part 6: If your empathetic nature requires you to know, you could always ask them. Possible reponses might be:
a. "We think it's a fine idea, it's high time someone did it, and if we could award extra points without breaking the rules, we'd do it."
b. "It didn't cost us anything, so why not/who cares?"
c. "Ehh!"
d. Dead silence.
e. Some form of penal topic locking.
f. Surreptitious point reductions done in such a clever way that you will never, ever notice until one day it starts going negative and you find that you now owe them 1,000,000 points.

Note: Responses e. and f. are highly unlikely and were just made up for fun.

----
* Authors should have no fear of prosecution for copyright infringement, or, as the movie FBI copyright notices state, "including infringement without infringement."
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 4:35:27 PM

Actually, Gas_Buddy, I'm not asking GB to do anything. The reason I put this topic here is because it specifically deals with this category but is not an improvement suggestion.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Jun 10, 2013 4:33:20 PM



First, I'm not sure what it is you're asking Gas Buddy to do?

Second, (regardless of what I may think about the wiki, or wiki list, or whatever, or that most members don't review it before starting new topics to see if an issue is already being discussed), this is CampKohler's list; he can do what he wants with the list, and if he doesn't think a suggestion should be included (despite his "general" guidelines), that's his decision.

Unless you're suggesting that Gas Buddy formalize CampKohler's wikis/lists/whatevers/etc., Campkoholer's works are his, his alone, and his to share as he sees fit. Which is what I think he's doing.

I don't think Gas Buddy needs to provide their opinion of what CampKohler's list contains/doesn't contain as long as it's clearly identified as being CampKohler's wikis/lists/etc and not being identified as belonging to or prepared by Gas Buddy.
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