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Author Topic: FSL problem: only one instance of each station allowed now. Back to Topics
CampKohler

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Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 6:42:41 PM

By use of the Sort Order field, I arrange my single FSL in sections, each being a different route to a destination. Naturally the same station may be encountered on different routes. It has always been the case that the same station could be present in the FSL multiple times, but today I notice that this is no longer the case.

If a station was present multiple times before, now only one instance is present and all the others have disappeared from the FSL. While new stations can be added, no longer can additional instances of a station be added even though the system reports that they have been added, whether from the MGP map or the station detail page.

Both Chrome and IE8 were used in testing with identical results.

Please fix this bug so that the same station can appear multiple times. The only other fix I can see that might work is to add the same station multiple times to the FSL, which would be undesireable to say the least.
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Feb 27, 2013 8:07:16 AM

>> The real problem here is that the site should have an easier way of entering cash-credit differentials

There's that, but the real problem here was that they were too lazy to fix the real problem (duplicate station entries) and instead just broke the feature (multiple entries for the same station in the FSL) to prevent having to fix the real problem caused by a handful of a users (for whom they could have simply hand-edited their FSL).
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Feb 26, 2013 10:17:52 PM

I used multiple FSL entries for the same station for the reason bytebug describes: to post different cash-credit differential comments when the differential at a station varies by grade of fuel or by day. For example, today at the Stars station in San Francisco, the cash-credit differential was 8¢/gallon for regular, 6¢/gallon for midgrade and premium, and 10¢/gallon for diesel.

Without multiple FSL entries, it is now harder to enter these comments, but still doable. From the Find Gas Near Me portion of the Android app, I first posted the regular cash price with comment, copying the comment. I then posted the midgrade and premium prices, pasting the regular comment and editing it slightly. Finally, I posted the diesel price, again pasting the regular comment and editing it slightly. The real problem here is that the site should have an easier way of entering cash-credit differentials; it is currently somewhat too difficult and so few posters go to the trouble to do it.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 6:51:37 AM

True kwzh you don't need a "Going to moms" list when you are traveling in a different state. Also, you wouldn't need that section of your FSL if you could list stations on your FSL more than once. So not having it on a one FSL doesn't clutter up your FSL with stations you don't need while traveling in certain areas.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 6:23:57 AM

Also, if I create multiple lists on *any* site, those same titles will show up on *all* sites. I don't need a "going to Mom's" list when I'm in a different state!
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 5:03:04 AM

>> Have you ever tried multiple lists?

While multiple lists would be the easiest way to deal with multiple price-gathering routes, my usage case of wanting a single list for each city with multiple entries to address a station with different comments for different grades of fuel would just not work.
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RogerB
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 4:31:38 AM

Have you ever tried multiple lists? I think switching lists would be just as quick and easy, if not easier, than the method you have been using. Also, the [L=Member_fav_stations_edit.aspx][Edit my favorite stations] [/L] page has a quick, easy to use tool that would allow you to easily move stations from each section of your present list to new lists, with one new list for each route or section you now have.

The title of each list would replace the phoney, fake stations you now use for section headers. Why fight progress?

[Edited by: RogerB at 2/21/2013 4:32:17 AM EST]
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 17, 2013 3:16:49 PM

Scrap: As discussed in posts from the 13th, "Multiple instances" refers to the practice of adding the same station to one's FSL more than once. That used to be permitted, some members relied upon it to make their FSL work as desired, and now it is no longer permitted. (Upset apple carts may be found strewn across the landscape.)
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 10:50:56 PM

Jeesh CK! You gotta get out more!
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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 10:46:41 PM

Multiple Instance?
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 7:38:42 PM

What is MI supposed to mean?
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 7:31:24 PM

Zim: Yes, you can use the app if you have 1) have the time to do it (vs. making a voice recording of the prices while on the move, 2) if you have a smart phone and 3) if you didn't forget your smart phone and it's batt is still up. So you could call it a relic, I suppose, but let's face it: some of us are just fuddy-duddies.

----

ANOTHER FINE IMPROVEMENT: The first thing I found out when devising the MI workaround is that you no longer can add stations to the FSL that aren't in the MSL (although previously-added ones remain and were not deleted). I have long used dummy entries for section headers and I remember that it was not hard to create them. But that was over a year ago and certainly since the Bug Fix. So now I need a workaround to make the workaround work! Egads!

ADDING "DUMMY" STATIONS: To compensate for the lack of an ability for creating a dummy station, I added a real station from an area far, far away, that is, a station I was not likely to encounter or need in everyday use. Then I edited the FSL entry for that station to turn it into a dummy (or so I thought). I changed all the fields to the text I use in section headers. But all this was doing was putting lipstick on a pig, that is it is actually a live station, but just with different name, address and city field data and a Status of "Changed". The trouble with this is that the prices of the original station show up in the live FSL! Later I hit on the idea of using real stations with a status of Deleted-Duplicate, which should never have prices. This will be OK as long as I never hit the Match button*, which would turn it back into a real station. If anyone can think of a better solution to creating dummy FSL entries, I would be very interested to hear it.

MI FSL SECTION: The first step was to create an MI section in the FSL to hold all the MI stations. I was very lucky to have an extra true dummy station (Status = "Not Matched") created before and evidently grandfathered by the Bug Fix, so I edited it into an MI header. Then I moved all my MI stations (a whole four of them) to the new MI section.

MI REFERENCE ENTRIES: The second step was to creat dummy stations to be inserted in route sections where the MI stations (the ones disappeared by the Bug Fix) used to be. These would point to the stations in the MI section. The address field was used to list the brands of the referenced MI stations just in case I ever succumb to Stationheimers some day. I numbered them in order of creation, but since they are actually real stations, they will be unique and will not need to be numbered to keep them from being MI in themselves. (I hope you followed that.)

EXAMPLE: With the addition of the MI stations (A), MI header (B) and the reference entries (C), my FSL was ready to go. It will have to do until the Bug-Fix Fix is done, whereupon it all goes back to the way it was.

----
*Why they would let you match to a deleted station, I can't imagine.



[Edited by: CampKohler at 2/15/2013 7:37:27 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 4:34:27 PM

I would agree Zim that entering as you pass stations is a huge improvement. I don't agree the FSL is antiquated. Some people use them all the time. I have three but I seldom use them.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 3:26:25 PM

Zimcity wrote:

"FSL, isn't this an antiquated relic from the GB site?
Surely entering everything on your mobile device as you pass the stations is the new and improved way to do it."

No it's not antiquated. It's a simple feature used on a desktop or laptop.
And, not everyone uses mobile devices, mobile devices to a cess apps, or to post gas prices on Fas Buddy.
And, not e dry member of Gas Buddy has mobile devices.
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Zimcity
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 12:58:09 PM

FSL, isn't this an antiquated relic from the GB site?

Surely entering everything on your mobile device as you pass the stations is the new and improved way to do it.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 12:52:37 PM

I rarely see duplicates anymore.
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 12:26:37 PM

>> being able to enter one station more than once in one FSL a bug

That's not the bug. The bug, which has existed from Day 1, is the duplicate remover. I've mostly given up reporting duplicate posts because they seem incapable of ever eliminating them.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 15, 2013 6:55:50 AM

Well, CK, I don't think the powers that be will be reversing what they did since they considered being able to enter one station more than once in one FSL a bug.

Did you add this to your wiki?
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 10:45:29 PM

Until FSL Bug Fix get fixed, here is not-quite-elegant workaround: in place of each disappeared station, add a dummy (non-matched) station (one per route should be enough) to remind you of what used to be there. Then set up a Multiple-Instance Station section where you keep all stations that were MI before the "fix." The latter will probably be few in number, because there will likely be only a few stations that are on the way to everywhere else in the world. Let's call the section "-Multiple Instance Stations". Then you enter your prices in two steps.

1. Enter the prices in the FSL section as normal.
2. Do a "[Ctrl-F]-m" to reach the MI section.
3. Enter the prices for the MI stations.

It's not ideal, but as the stations along your routes have probably worn deep grooves in your grey matter, you will remember what they are.

Newsflash! There may be another Bug Fix ramification that prevents this workaround from being done as easily as it would have before, but I will have to pursue the details tomorrow. I have another workaround, but no time to explain. I'll have a nice graphic for it, too.
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 5:05:55 PM

The inflexibility of the FSL is why I abandoned using them many years ago.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 14, 2013 6:53:35 AM

Based on the recent polls on this site it appears dual priced stations are in the minority. That said, if the cash/credit spread is different per grade, that is probably more of a minority. I think kwzh's comment is the way to go.

Having multiples FSL's is not a disadvantage. They can easily be accessed on this site and from an Android phone.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 11:50:33 PM

I know of one local station that has different surcharges for credit, but I decided to just use a single comment saying "+6/6/5c credit" instead of making separate comment lines.

Btw, scoutmaster, for this use case there would be no advantage to using multiple FSLs, because it would be the same amount of work as using a single FSL twice.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 10:13:08 PM

kwzh: OK, I offer a third solution for allowing multiple instances of a station AND bytebug's usage. Suppose when you click in any price field of any multiple-instance station, a balloon pops up and THAT is where you enter the prices. The one set of prices would populate all instances of the station. In addition, it would show all the comments present in each instance and present them to the user with checkboxes to allow him to choose the comment he wants to use on the next Submit for that station.

I don't really have any "investment" in this comment solution and it could could probably stand improvement (or at least more thought), but I throw it out quickly now only as an end to a means, namely getting the multiple-stations capability back.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 9:23:08 PM

No bytebug, I understand you suggestion. I just don't see the need.
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 5:57:04 PM

>> I list all that are on the sign at the same time.

You evidently had difficulty comprehending my previous explanation of why having separate entries in the FSL was a good thing.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 4:41:46 PM

I seldom enter separate prices for the same station. I list all that are on the sign at the same time.
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 3:21:01 PM

>> Why not create multiple FSL lists?

Yep, that's really convenient! Enter the diesel price for a station on one list, and the rest of the prices on another?
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 6:31:28 AM

Why not create multiple FSL lists?
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Feb 13, 2013 2:26:27 AM

CampKohler, it sounds like either of your suggested fixes would still break bytebug's use case.

Here's a novel idea. How about if the FSL system gets fixed so that using multiple lists is *not* so awkward? Maybe use a tab box, with each list in a separate tab instead of having to go through the menu?
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:47:54 PM

TB wrote > We fixed this bug because it was causing duplicate problems.

To many of us, this was a feature. The duplicates issue was the bug. Surely there were other ways of dealing with the bug. Many of us had reasons for having the same station in a single FSL multiple times. See bytebug's post for one example.

TB wrote > Some members only had 1 station in their list 5 times and they would post the prices all at the same time.

Maybe you should have contacted those members to find out why they were doing this and banned them if they didn't have a good reason and were truly abusing the system.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 2/12/2013 10:51:09 PM EST]
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 10:29:54 PM

Canned rats! I am really sorry to see this happen. There was never any need to scroll, because I had a header for each route, e.g. "-SYLVAN OAKS LIBRARY". By doing a "[Ctrl-F]-S", it took me right to the top of that route. Sweet!

This only proves that no good deed goes unpunished. (And of course I was joking about the MSL.) But you know, I'll bet with a little extra coding, you could still allow multiple instances of stations in the FSL and yet prevent multiple price reports from other instances. Two possible methods come to mind:
1. If you enter anything into one instance of station XYZ, you would be blocked from entering anything into any other instance.
2. Entering anything into one instance automatically copies the input into all other instances. This would be the best, as it autofills the same station in other routes.

I sure hope you will look into this, because it avoids the ickiness of multiple lists. And I am not the only user to have come up with this ideal method. This is what the S.O. field was made for (whether GB knew it or not).
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bytebug
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 6:37:18 AM

There *is* one other usage case for having multiple instances of the same station in your FSL: a number of stations have a different credit surcharge for different grades of fuel, and having multiple instances of those stations allows you to automatically attach the correct comment regarding that surcharge. For instance one station locally has a 6¢ per gallon surcharge for regular, mid, and premium fuels, and a 10¢ surcharge for diesel. Having two entries in your FSL would allow you to enter all four fuel prices, and have both the +6¢ and +10¢ comments applied appropriately.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 6:34:47 AM

I don't remember being able to have the same station listed twice on one FSL. Guess I never saw the need to do this. Still don't see the need.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2013 1:39:20 AM

I have much the same situation as CampKohler -- I prefer to use a single FSL, usefully sorted, since (despite sometimes having to scroll) I find this easier to use than the "approved" method with multiple lists. I'm disappointed that this change was deemed necessary.
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TB
Moderator
Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 10:25:02 AM

CampKohler you are correct you used to be able to have the same station listed multiple times on one favourite station list.

We have since fixed this bug so that you can only have one station on one list. In order to solve your problem all you need to do is create multiple lists for your different routes and then just switch to the different lists. Not only will this fix your problem but you won't have to scroll as much you will only have the stations that you need.

We fixed this bug because it was causing duplicate problems. Some members only had 1 station in their list 5 times and they would post the prices all at the same time. This was causing duplicates and other problems in our system.

Please do NOT add duplicate stations to the master station list this would only cause confusion for the rest of the Gasbuddy sites that will see the same station listed twice.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 6:47:47 AM

You have never been able to do what you are trying to do CK. You can build multiple FSL and have one station appear in more than one list. You can also have custom searches that accomplish the same thing.
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CampKohler
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 3:32:20 AM

jrsva: Say I have a route of stations A, B, C, D, E in one route in my FSL (arranged in that order by the S.O. field). Then say another route is A, G, H, I, J. A appears in both, because it is on the way to both routes, I want A to be in both, that is it will appear twice in my one FSL. There has been no problem with this for years. Now all of a sudden, only one can exist. That is to say, if there were more than one A in the list, now there is only one. Furthermore, while the system says additional A's are added, they are not (or if they are, they are not visible in the list, which, for all practical purposes is the same thing).

Ah, I see why your question of the first paragraph. I said FSL, but I meant MSL. Adding multiple instances of a station to the MSL would not be good. Sorry about the confusion from that.

TxJeans: You could very well be correct, but from my perspective only GB knows for sure whether there have been any changes in the FSL code. Even if it's true, I still want GB to fix it.



[Edited by: CampKohler at 2/11/2013 3:38:26 AM EST]
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jrsva
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 11, 2013 1:12:53 AM

Man, am I ever confused. “While new stations can be added, no longer can additional instances of a station be added . . .” Then later, “The only other fix I can see that might work is to add the same station multiple times to the FSL, which would be undesireable to say the least.”

I thought adding “the same station multiple times” was exactly what you wanted to do and that the problem was that “. . . no longer can additional instances of a station be added . . .” What is it I’m not seeing here?

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TxJeans
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 10:01:53 PM

I don't think it is a new bug but a fix to a bug that now interferes with how Ck was using the FSL.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 10, 2013 8:41:50 PM

I understand what you are doing CK, but I don't see the need to have the same station on more than one list.
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