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Author Topic: CREDIT price versus CASH price Back to Topics
SultanGuy

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Seattle

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Message Posted: Sep 20, 2010 10:58:26 PM

I've got a station near me that advertises a cash price which runs about 3-8 cents cheaper than their credit/debit price. Both are posted on their sign. Everyone I know pays with a card. So I lean towards reporting the station's credit price. But you CAN get it cheaper by paying their cash price. So I also think that it what I should report.

What do you all think?

I know ARCO only takes debit (no credit cards), and they charge an extra $0.45 when you use your card. I always take this into consideration when making my personal decisions. But in that case, there is only one price per gallon, and I report it.
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CC
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Message Posted: Mar 3, 2014 11:36:05 AM

Please don't bump old, inactive topics.
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SultanGuy
Rookie Author Seattle

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2014 12:37:40 PM

Anyone reading this now can ignore it. The guidelines have changed. Cash reported first.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Nov 24, 2010 10:28:07 AM

I was referring to your last post AccuPrice.
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AccuPrice
Rookie Author Oregon

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Message Posted: Nov 24, 2010 10:18:35 AM

What's common sense?

For some they see cash = base. GB " guideline " suggests credit = base and some consumers see credit = base.

Inches or metric lug nuts? It doesn't really matter, so long as they're all the same. The problems we have here? It seems like people are choosing to mix them up (credit & cash).
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Nov 24, 2010 6:31:11 AM

I love it when common sense prevails~
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AccuPrice
Rookie Author Oregon

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Message Posted: Nov 24, 2010 4:40:06 AM

Multiple tier price accommodation isn't done, but its pretty simple.

Should there be multiple pricing:

1.) Post credit prices if readily available or you know it (i.e. you just bought). Note any type of discount in comment.

2.) If you do not **KNOW** the credit pricing, then say something like "sign says cash" in comment. I think it is in bad taste to intentionally omit credit pricing for your favorite location/station you manage. If you KNOW for certain they don't take credit, write it. This is useful to travelers.

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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 5:16:57 AM

In MOST areas cash and credit are the same.
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PaylessKY
Champion Author Kentucky

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2010 12:52:18 PM

In my area cash and credit are the same price.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Nov 21, 2010 4:34:34 AM

Since the comment area is free-form, there's currently no good way for the system to know that a comment is describing a cash/credit price difference, rather than some other useful info about the station.

This could be fixed, of course, but that's essentially saying that the system could be made to properly support dual-priced stations -- and that's already in the pipeline, at least as far as the wish list.
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Saxywolf
All-Star Author Allentown

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2010 10:16:47 PM

I actually asked this in another forum, but seems pretty relevant for this thread... What if both cash and credit prices are posted?

Isn't the point to help people find the cheaper/est price?

Wouldn't that be done by posting the price they would be paying? And people like to pay the cheaper price.

There are of course exceptions and thus we have the comment area. But, I don't think it is helpful enough. You might not see the comment unless you check the details and mouse over. That is really more then should be expected to get regular people to use this. I think the cheapest price should be listed and there should be a * next to the price and maybe even a different color background or outline of the price. For instance, there is no way I'm going to click on every station in the list to find out who has the cheapest cash price.

Yea, the cheapest price might be a cash price and someone will end up going to the station no matter how obvious you make the comment. But, it doesn't mean we should be un-reasonable about it and abandon advertising their cheap price. Until we have separate price inputs and a filter list for cash/credit/member/card prices (like the avoidance list of a GPS) I don't think there will be an easy answer. I just think the answer should help reasonable people find the cheapest price with as much ease as possible.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2010 5:13:18 PM

Maybe the reason it didn't attract much attention is because it wasn't a good idea in the 1st place. Sorta like burping up a bad meal! Still tastes bad!
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RogerB
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 20, 2010 2:13:46 PM

> useless and pointless! ??

Locked or not - it is still possible to read the discussion. Seems to me, posting the link makes a lot more sense than repeating much of the same discussion here or in a new topic. That way, if you DON'T want to read it, just don't click the link!

The idea didn't seem to attract much interest then, so likely wouldn't now - one reason I don't want to start a new thread, or discuss it at length here. I just wanted to comment that I still thought it was a good idea
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2010 8:05:27 AM

That topic is locked RogerB, so posting the link is useless and pointless!
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RogerB
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2010 7:51:48 AM

> If comments are hard to generate using some entry methods, then
> fixing that difficulty should be a high priority item.

I agree - that's why I suggested:

Add a "Suggested Comment" or Default Comment to the MSL

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OutThere
Champion Author Denver

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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2010 4:59:06 PM

According to the FAQ, always post the non-discounted price.

For stations with a cash discount, post the CREDIT price, with a comment like (-5¢ with cash).

For the warehouse clubs, the prices are always assumed to be the member price; an added comment doesn't hurt, of course.

For other discount membership cards, post the non-member price, but you can post the membership discount in the comment (-3¢ w/card). Failure to follow this policy can get you banned.
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drunkhabib
Champion Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2010 9:59:32 AM

i love cash credit pricing, allows me a bigger discount
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 11:16:23 PM

scoutmaster writes,
> The price that nobody pays? If it's a members price then wouldn't the members pay that price?

If we insisted on "consistency", then the price to be reported would be the inflated non-member price.

I've said before that *which* price is reported for a dual-price station is not as important as insisting on a *comment* that specifies which price it is. If comments are hard to generate using some entry methods, then fixing that difficulty should be a high priority item.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 7:59:23 AM

I'm just telling you what is going on as a practical matter. I never questioned what the policy states.

If the vast majority of people are not following policy, maybe the policy or other systemic changes should be made. The vast majority of people reporting prices using the maps, mobile site or app simply are not going to type in a comment.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 7:53:30 AM

Quoting policy? Guess I do know what I'm talking about!
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 7:40:53 AM

scoutmaster - You are quoting GB policy as stated in the FAQ. You are not stating 'the way it has been done for consistency'. The way it has been done has been quite the opposite. Usually, clubs requiring membership, such as Costco, BJs and Sam's, are reported without comment wrt membership and usually the member price is reported.

I searched on those clubs in several states (NY, PA, CA, Minn, Idaho, TX, VA). There were a total of 154 reported prices. 24 of those (16%) mentioned membership. 2 of those (1.3%) reported the non-member price.

Adding comments regarding membership may have been more in line with GB policy before the app, mobile site and maps, but it is by no means the norm now. As a practical matter, the way people out are reporting prices is completely inconsistent with GB policy. Calling me nasty names isn't going to change that fact.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 10/27/2010 7:44:13 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 6:40:30 AM

The price that nobody pays? If it's a members price then wouldn't the members pay that price?
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 2:58:05 AM

The point is that "consistency" is useless in this situation because it would mean posting a price that nobody ever pays.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 7:45:57 PM

Blather? Seems you are the one blathering SH! I'm just pointing out the way it has been done for consistency.
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TDI_LOVER
Champion Author Spokane

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 2:06:35 PM

that extra .45 cent garbage does pose a bit of a predicament. While credit price is to be officially reported (with cash discount listed in comments), the official reporting space doesn't account for a .45 cent surcharge for using a dang card.... hmmm....
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 8:25:38 AM

Doesn't work with the app.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 10/26/2010 8:25:53 AM EST]
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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 8:08:41 AM

If it's in your favorites, it doesn't have to be added each time.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 8:01:16 AM

Blather all you want, as a practical matter, it ain't gonna happen. Nobody around here seems to complain about it.

I'll also add that with more people entering prices using the app or the mobile site, they just aren't going to take the time to add a comment.

[Edited by: Scrapheap at 10/26/2010 8:03:02 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 7:26:29 AM

And if it's a members only price it should be posted as such. If members get a discount, then the street price should be posted and the members discount listed in the comments. It would be misleading to post a discounted price not all consumers can get.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 6:36:15 AM

As a practical matter, not gonna happen. The price would be one of the highest in the state and pretty much useless. The member price keeps the prices of nearby stations low.

I just use common sense when it comes to Costco, BJs and Sams. If the price is low, it is a member only price.
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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 6:31:06 AM

Scrapheap,

In that case I'd stress the rule that the price posted is that available to the general public.
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 6:30:44 AM

In my area, all Sam's and Costco are members only.
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Scrapheap
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 5:46:11 AM

Not all Costcos, BJs or Sams are members only. It really depends on the jurisdiction. In Fairfax County VA, Costco is required to sell to the general public. Their price for the general public is so high that nobody would buy there and as a practical matter everyone posts the member price, without comment.
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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 4:47:54 AM

jrsva,

I agree about the "members only" notation being permanent. It probably should also be extended to AAFES stations.
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jrsva
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 12:37:40 AM

Costco is a bird of a different feather, probably Sam’s and BJ’s as well. Costco requires a membership and the gas station does not accept cash or normal credit/debit cards, hence it would not fit logically in either a cash-price list or a credit-price list. About all we can do is post “Members Only” in the Comment field for every Costco price post. This comment ought to be set up to migrate from the MSL along with the address info so that it appears automatically. Very few GB members add such a comment now.

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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Oct 25, 2010 6:48:11 AM

These stations should be posted as Members Only stations.
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Oct 25, 2010 3:20:07 AM

Costco gas stations do not accept cash but do accept Costco Cash cards, which are like gift cards or prepaid debit cards: you buy a card of a certain denomination (e.g., $100) and then can use that card to buy up to that dollar amount of products at Costco. They can be bought in the warehouses or online, and you can recharge them with additional funds when their balances run low. I would say that they are really neither credit cards nor cash.

[Edited by: DavisSta at 10/25/2010 3:23:49 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2010 6:05:30 PM

"Since they require a "cash equivalent", and don't accept ALL credit cards, I'd say their price should be considered a cash price."

No. You must be a member to get gas at Costco or Sam's Club and they only accept cards. They do not accept cash.
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BullDozer50
Champion Author Charlotte

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2010 5:11:35 PM

At least here in NC, Sam's Clubs require a Member Card and Credit/Debit card
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RogerB
Champion Author Indianapolis

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2010 2:16:52 PM

> Some stations (e.g. Costco) are essentially credit only,

Costco gas stations take only Costco Cash, debit cards, and American Express, people who can only pay for gas by check or cash must purchase a Costco Cash Card inside the building before filling up WikipediA / Costco

Since they require a "cash equivalent", and don't accept ALL credit cards, I'd say their price should be considered a cash price.

I'm not sure what the policy is at Sam's Club, but it IS a discounted price, and I think is would be appropriate to post their price with Cash (and other discounted) prices.
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CoastieME
Champion Author Maine

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2010 9:36:45 AM

Here in Maine for SAMS and BJS we post "members only" in the comments field.

If I'm following the discussion, would you then need 3 price lists?
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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 11, 2010 6:12:27 AM

Costco (and Sams) are members only, which involve other fees. How do you suggest treating them?
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2010 10:49:50 PM

WR-INC wrote:
> I don't know if the MSL checkbox thing would work, especially when the system has to decide where the station belongs on the list and how it would figure into averages, although those problems already exist to a minor degree with the current setup.

The problem of how cash and credit prices figure into regional average prices is already a problem to a minor degree in regions that have few cash-only and dual price stations; it is already a problem to a major degree in regions that have a lot of such stations. Since some members post the credit prices as primary and some members post the cash prices as primary, and since some stations (e.g. ARCO) are essentially cash only and some stations (e.g. Costco) are essentially credit only, the averages that are currently being calculated are an arbitrary mixture of cash and credit prices. If we had a dual-entry system, separate cash and credit averages could be calculated, resulting in more accurate averages.

As far as deciding where a station belongs on the price-sorted list, I envision there being two lists--a cash list and a credit list. This would allow us to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Or perhaps even better, there would be essentially one list (with prices marked cash or credit when appropriate), but the user would have the ability to filter the list by excluding cash prices or excluding credit prices.
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2010 10:47:57 PM

kwzh,

I basically agree with everything you say in your last post, although I think that confronting these unaware posters with the cash/credit choice when they enter prices, thereby making them aware that a station has dual pricing, would be much better (not just slightly better) than the current model, and should lead to a significant improvement in the quality of the posts.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2010 6:22:22 AM

Note also that, even in jurisdictions where the station is required to put the info on the sign, it's quite possible for them to be within the letter of the law and still have a competent GasBuddy member fail to notice the dual pricing. (I can think of two such stations on my routes.) But if that member learns of the dual pricing scheme by being faced with the cash/credit question when entering the data, we're still slightly better off than with the current model.
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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2010 5:17:21 AM

DavisSta,

I don't know if the MSL checkbox thing would work, especially when the system has to decide where the station belongs on the list and how it would figure into averages, although those problems already exist to a minor degree with the current setup.
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2010 12:55:40 AM

WR-INC wrote:
> You're assuming that information is on the sign, which in my area it rarely is since a wide majority don't have that dual pricing. We'd have to post both as the same.

I think you may be misunderstanding what I have in mind, WR-INC. If you live in an area where there are no stations with dual pricing, there should be no effect whatsoever on how you enter prices. The way I envision the system working, you would only get presented with separate cash and credit price entry boxes if someone marked the station in the MSL (through a new checkbox) as having different cash and credit prices. Unless that MSL box was checked, you'd just have a single set of price entry boxes for the station.

And by the way, if a Minnesota gas station has different cash and credit prices and displays the cash prices on its price sign, by law the sign must clearly indicate that they are cash prices. See Minnesota Statutes, section 239.751, subdivision 3 (price advertising sign; gasoline, diesel fuel), paragraph (b), which reads: "If the advertised price per gallon, or price per liter, is subject to any conditions or restrictions, the conditions or restrictions must be clearly posted on the sign. For example, if a customer must pay cash to obtain the advertised price, the sign must clearly state 'cash,' 'cash price,' or 'cash discount price.'"

[Edited by: DavisSta at 10/10/2010 12:59:30 AM EST]
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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 9, 2010 6:43:20 PM

Some can take this fight too far:

wildcat659
Champion Author California

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Message Posted: Oct 9, 2010 4:21:07 PM

Got a "message" from a mod telling me I have to post prices contrary to what I do. Guess I'm not long for Gas Buddy world, as I told him that I was NOT going to post credit card prices when those prices are NOT the lowest available.

Been nice knowing all of you.
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WR-INC
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 9, 2010 5:42:35 AM

DavisSta,

You're assuming that information is on the sign, which in my area it rarely is since a wide majority don't have that dual pricing. We'd have to post both as the same.
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DavisSta
All-Star Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2010 10:16:35 PM

kwzh writes:
> And sometimes because the price spotter only saw one sign and wasn't aware that it was the cash price. This is the case that will be tricky to handle "right", even when we do have dual-entry capability...

Ideally the dual-entry capability would clue the poster in to the fact that there are two sets of prices for the station. The fact that the station has different cash and credit prices would be recorded in the MSL. Then, when someone goes to post prices for the station, he or she would be presented with two sets of price boxes: cash and credit. If the poster didn't notice whether the prices he spotted were cash or credit, he could forgo posting the prices that time. The next time the poster passed by the station, he would presumably make a particular effort to notice whether the spotted prices were cash or credit.
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kwzh
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2010 4:57:57 AM

DavisSta writes,
> Sometimes cash prices are posted because the posters are unaware of the FAQ guidelines and sometimes they are posted because the posters disagree with the FAQ.

And sometimes because the price spotter only saw one sign and wasn't aware that it was the cash price. This is the case that will be tricky to handle "right", even when we do have dual-entry capability...
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