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Author Topic: Keeping oil changed Back to Topics
superman1AZ

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Phoenix

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Message Posted: Jan 18, 2014 10:38:56 PM

I think keeping your oil changed is not only good maintenance, but allows the car to get better fuel mileage because of a smoother running engine.
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the1roadhog
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 8:31:02 AM

consistency is the key
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jnate22
Sophomore Author California

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 8:22:10 AM

Do it every 3000 miles
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GrumpyCat
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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2014 12:00:59 AM

Vin63, ZDDP is a consumable, it is not a critical protection mechanism in anything but high lift hotrods without roller lifters. In such hotrods large quantities are needed because it is consumed. Once a high pressure metal-on-metal contact occurs the oil is squeezed out and ZDDP remains. The ZDDP zinc gets crushed, soft zinc protects the harder steel but the zinc gets consumed in the process.

10 or 15 years ago Mobil-1 tried making their 15W-50 with the same formulation as 5W-30 but for viscosity, much less ZDDP. Destroyed the camshafts and lifters in many 1960's hotrods before Mobil-1 remedied their ways. But not before ruining their reputation. A 3,000 mile oil change was too long in this situation.

Quite frankly ZDDP is a bandaid for poor engine design in these hotrods. Roller lifters puts an end to the oil problem.
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CentaurChiron
Veteran Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Feb 23, 2014 10:08:15 PM

MertieMAN, that is not nice
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MertieMan
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Feb 20, 2014 5:17:00 AM

Well I'll be durned, how long did it take you to figure that out?
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ricebike
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 10:47:02 PM

i think changing the oil filter would be good maintenance too
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DuramaxPower
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Feb 19, 2014 7:00:37 PM

yes
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espo85
All-Star Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2014 9:21:18 AM

Thank you, Captain Obvious!
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Travelocity
Rookie Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2014 9:10:17 AM

Following regular schedule would save you more in long term and reduce wear and tear on internal parts. I used syn/blended and wicks oil filter along with K&N filter and my mileage for my Saturn V6 average 30mpg for a 13 year old car. That more or less close to current V6 are getting current and does better then others. So the better care you do for your car the better it returns to you.
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silverG
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Feb 12, 2014 8:57:34 AM

I've gone to 5,000 mile oil change as apposed to the 3,000 mile idea.
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ny10
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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2014 2:52:39 PM

yes
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GLM4205
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Feb 9, 2014 2:08:45 PM

Yes
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pilotdlh
All-Star Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2014 12:00:43 PM

I change oil at 5-7000 miles. The oil still looks fairly clean.
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jes
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Message Posted: Feb 8, 2014 8:30:05 AM

I don't necessarily agree with the better fuel mileage, unless you haven't changed the oil for years, but it is only common sense to have it regularly changed to extend the life of your engine.
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Vin63
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Message Posted: Jan 31, 2014 9:55:03 AM

Houckster: I'm not aware of any UOA labs offering ph testing at this time. From what the lab that I use noted that it is a complicated test and costly. For my applications, my main concerns are fuel dilution (fuel injector issues), TBN (corrosion), copper (bearing issues), and silica (air filtration issues). Ph level would be interesting though if available.
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aalix
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2014 2:17:19 PM

Have oil changed at Just Tires (with internet coupon).
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Boyrr
Champion Author Allentown

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2014 12:31:03 PM

it isnt needed every 3,000
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2014 11:15:20 AM

VIN63 writes: . . . TBN falls quickly during the first 1K miles of new oil
______
Possibly this is due to neutralizing the acid in the old oil that didn't get drained completely?

Also: In trying to gain a better understanding of TBN I've come across some discussion that TBN does not reveal some key information.

New ph Test

[Edited by: Houckster at 1/30/2014 11:14:33 AM EST]
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eyegotgas2
Champion Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2014 7:46:45 AM

My vehicle tells me what my current oil life is and what type of service is required.
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Dennis783
Champion Author Des Moines

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2014 7:45:47 AM

I agree an engine needs fresh oil to avoid problems, but I don't see any fuel mileage increase with oil change
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hoopitup2000
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2014 6:48:37 AM

My rule of thumb is to change every 6 to 12 months depending on what type of driving is being done.

Mostly highway/low city miles--Up to 12 months
Lot's of stop & go/short trips-Every 6 months
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twt
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Message Posted: Jan 30, 2014 5:05:27 AM

Common sense. Old oil can look clean, but change it anyway. I change mine, every 4 thousand miles.
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Vin63
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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2014 10:15:22 AM

Houkster - newer oils are including less and less ZDDP because of more emissions equipment. The primary thing I keep track of today through used oil analysis (UOA), and what I use to gauge oil life is the TBN package. This is also a good indicator of volatility immediately following an oil change. From my own UOA and well documented UOA trends in the industry, TBN falls quickly during the first 1K miles of new oil, but plateaus and will show a slower more predictable decline during the rest of its active life in the oil.
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bluenvoy
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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2014 10:10:44 AM

Always done when needed.
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Vin63
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2014 10:04:12 AM

Grumpycat should read the entire paper and comprehend the study results of oil stabilization, as well as become familiar with the properties of today's automobile lubricants and technologies. The volatility as stated, is the burn off of the ZDDP (particularly the phosphorous - ZDDP having important protective and lubricating properties) film during the introduction of new oil - largely from the detergent additive package - until the new oil stabilizes. This burn off manifests in the form of a gaseous byproduct that automakers have long addressed with the emissions equipment on present day vehicles. I, nor the paper or other lubricity studies, are stating anything new…it's just the result of chemical reaction of the modern additive packages in today's oils that address a compromise between lubrication, product longevity, emissions, etc.
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twt
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Message Posted: Jan 29, 2014 5:52:02 AM

I totally agree.
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carinthuist
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 11:24:48 PM

yes
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outlaw329
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 8:26:54 PM

Done in the driveway when needed.
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Bowlerman10
Sophomore Author Fort Worth

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 1:12:26 PM

not changing is very costly in the short term.
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Wanda127
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:44:20 AM

Yes I agree we need to do regular oil changes
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lyanMI
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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 9:02:57 AM

Its mandatory
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OilerFan
Champion Author Tulsa

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 7:45:48 AM

It's just a smart thing to do.
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randy3116
Champion Author Tennessee

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 5:55:37 AM

proof positive is my car with over 320,000 miles
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twt
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jan 28, 2014 3:24:30 AM

Regular oil change, is a good idea.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2014 7:31:47 PM

SynLube Lube-4-Life SynLube's a very small company but with an excellent product. If your engine isn't burning any oil, the SynLube should be very good for you. The oil isn't designed for engines that have substantial wear but I believe your ride is pretty new so that won't be a problem.

BTW, other than the slightly rougher ride, the new tire pressures you run should be a help on your gas mileage. If you're seeing very icy conditions, I'd hold off on the change until better traction conditions are present. In the areas where black ice is going to be a real possibility, I'd even lower the pressures to increase the tire contact patch.
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Fredelin
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2014 7:05:47 PM

Houckster: Would you please remind us the brand of synthetic oil you use.

Thanks
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carinthuist
Champion Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2014 10:35:41 PM

Yes
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2014 3:51:56 PM

DENNIS783 writes: I don't see any increase in mpg after an oil change
_____
You shouldn't. If you are changing your oil at a proper interval, the oil that's drained should still be functional but near the end of its lifespan.
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thebrohta167
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2014 8:21:22 AM

i follow the recs of the owner manual
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Dennis783
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2014 7:53:58 AM

I don't see any increase in mpg after an oil change
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GrumpyCat
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 3:27:08 PM

Vin63 says, "Here you go…results from a ConocoPhillips and FoMoCo study:
http://papers.sae.org/2003-01-3119/"

The summary of that paper says nothing of what you claim.

You claim the paper states new oils are more volatile than used. Presumably the volatility has burned off. And that somehow that is a good thing that the oil is no longer the same as original composition. If that was true then the level of oil in my engine would go down significantly. And the results of oil analysis would be significantly different. Neither is the case.
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GrumpyCat
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 3:22:59 PM

"Use synthetic and keep it changed at recommended (factory) intervals"

Synthetic is not a performance specification or indicator of quality. Its only a method of production. Better oils can be made synthetically but just because synthetic techniques were used is no assurance of quality.
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Houckster
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 1:57:04 PM

VIN63: Thanks for the information. It is completely new to me so I'll look it over carefully. That said, this paper is from 2003 and with the new API SN spec oils being used generally, I wonder if this information is still fully applicable. I'll try to find out more.

[Edited by: Houckster at 1/23/2014 2:00:38 PM EST]
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Vin63
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 9:56:07 AM

Here you go…results from a ConocoPhillips and FoMoCo study:
http://papers.sae.org/2003-01-3119/

"In a word; volatility. Oil volatility is at its greatest in the first 3000km after an oil change. After that the volatility reduces and the oil stabilises.

Volatility is particularly bad for a DI engine because all of the lost fractions exit via the PCV system. Much of it goes out through the rocker cover vent, into the intake, through the turbo compressor and intercooler, then puddles in the bottom of the inlet manifold where it combines with the stuff coming through the PCV valve to coat the inlet valves and combustion chambers in gunk.

That black soot you see in your exhaust pipes, don’t assume it’s all caused by rich mixture. Excessive oil changing will contribute more soot.

The presence of oil in the intake also lowers the octane rating of your fuel leading to detonation.

The NOACK volatility test quantifies the extent of oil evaporation. The test standard - ASTM D5800 - 08 Standard Test Method for Evaporation Loss of Lubricating Oils by the Noack Method – also hints at another kind of danger associated with frequent oil changes where it states “Procedure C, using the Selby-Noack apparatus, also permits collection of the volatile oil vapors for determination of their physical and chemical properties. Elemental analysis of the collected volatiles may be helpful in identifying components such as phosphorous, which has been linked to premature degradation of the emission system catalyst.”

A lot of phosphorous is lost in the initial boil-off phase of new oil and it’s likely to be harming oxygen sensors and cats.

Engine manufacturers understand the problem and it would be easy for them to identify the type of damage done by over servicing and potentially result in a warranty claim denial.

Summary
By changing your oil at 5000km, you are subjecting your engine to oil that is almost always in the initial boil-off phase. It's contaminating and filling your engine with gunk. Contrary to popular and uninformed opinion, oil that is 10,000 km old is not likely to be harmful, and would certainly be less harmful than fresh oil."

The burn off of phosphorous is critical in the lubricating and protective properties of ZDDP levels in the oil.

[Edited by: Vin63 at 1/23/2014 10:04:50 AM EST]
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MertieMan
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 7:55:11 AM

You are indeed correct. You should see the inner workings of an engine after a woman got a new Honda and drove it 67,000 miles without changing the oil. It looked like someone had poured hot, thick tar over the valves and lifters. Needless to say after she drove it numerous miles with the oil light on it blew up.
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GLM4205
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 6:17:08 AM

Ok
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twt
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 5:45:17 AM

Prolongs engine life.
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carinthuist
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2014 12:26:54 AM

yes
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thirstyV8suv
All-Star Author Columbus

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2014 7:41:44 PM

possibly though I've not noticed much of a difference in MPG from freshly changed oil to so-called dirty oil
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2014 1:17:02 PM

VIN63 writes: Keep in mind that most of the wear to an engine comes immediately following an oil change, when the new detergent additives go to work.
_____
I have serious doubts about the validity of this statement. Can you provide any links to substantiate this claim?
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