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ch94589

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California

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2013 4:25:03 PM

I might consider electric. However good they are i need to do my homework to make sure they are safe. After watching the news i have some concerns.
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
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GBMAX
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 8:31:49 PM

Gas
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 2:35:36 PM

"I predict that, in our lifetime, technology will advance to the point where an electrician will have the tools to connect a receptical (sic) to the wires in a junction Box."

Yes, wiring your garage to recharge an EV in 4 hours or so is easy. Recharging an EV away from home, without sitting around for hours, doesn't exist yet, unless you buy a Tesla and there happens to be one of their stations where you need it. They have 25 up and running, most in central and southern CA. Not nearly as convenient as a gas station.


[Edited by: HotRod10 at 12/9/2013 2:36:24 PM EST]
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2013 1:45:46 PM

"I predict that, in our lifetime, technology will advance to the point where an electrician will have the tools to connect a receptical to the wires in a junction Box."

Parts to charge my Tesla cost less than $25 at Lowes last week.

1 Square-D QO 50A breaker
1 NEMA 14-50R receptacle
1 metal box
1 cover plate
strain relief thingy for the wire entrance to the distribution panel, and another for the metal box.
2' of 6 ga wire (could have used 8 ga).

Its not really any different than the outlet for your stove/range.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2013 9:49:20 AM

"Aw, heck, I can't post a URL without being 'text deleted'."

GrumpyCat, I ran into the same thing a while back; it's because the URL is too long. A helpful person told me about tinyurl (tinyurl.com) that creates a short alias for a long URL. It's easy and works great; no more "text deleted" links.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2013 9:27:14 AM

""No infrastructure to support EVs so, no."

I predict that, in our lifetime, technology will advance to the point where an electrician will have the tools to connect a receptical to the wires in a junction Box.

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the1roadhog
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2013 9:12:04 AM

No infrastructure to support EVs so, no.
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pghbill
Champion Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2013 1:18:52 AM

gas
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2013 12:33:10 AM

[L=http://www.plugincars.com/text deleted/L]

Aw, heck, I can't post a URL without being "text deleted".

Use Google to search for "Chevrolet Volt Chief Engineer Explains Volt Drivetrain" including the quotes. Should be the first result returned.

[Edited by: GrumpyCat at 12/4/2013 12:34:28 AM EST]
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2013 12:28:33 AM


For those who can not be bothered to read a *whole* (small) article:

• The Volt has three distinct motive forces in it: a large electric motor, a small electric motor/generator, and a 1.4 liter engine. Up to two of those three forces can be combined in select ways through the Volt's secret sauce drive unit—given the road demands and state of charge of the battery—to drive the vehicle.

...

• Even when the gas engine is on and partially driving the wheels, it cannot operate without electricity flowing to one of the other motors.

...

• There is no "direct" mechanical linkage between the Volt's gas engine and the wheels, rather there is an indirect linkage that is accomplished by meshing the power output of the engine with the power output of one of the other two electric motors.

• Motor Trend's reporting that the magic cutoff speed of 70 mph is what the car uses to determine whether or not to make the engine to partially drive the wheels is incorrect. The engine is used to partially drive the wheels when the car calculates that it will be a more efficient use of the engine's power. There is no hard cutoff point.

[L=http://www.plugincars.com/text deleted/L]

[Edited by: GrumpyCat at 12/4/2013 12:31:52 AM EST]
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 8:10:34 PM

Car hackers thinks that's cool too. Mythbusters was planning an episode on car hacking but lawyers from the car industry put a stop to it. I wonder why?

[Edited by: forresj at 12/3/2013 8:13:41 PM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 7:18:25 PM

No ice cubes or blankets needed. Just pull out your cell phone, hit the onstar app, and your Volt is warmed up to the settings you ask for. Pretty darned cool.
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 7:03:03 PM

Oh you know I will. Like I said, "technology came too late and has not progressed enough to make a difference."

Btw, before you take a stroll in your Volt, don't forget to bring along your blanket to keep yourself warm in the winter and ice cubes to keep yourself cool in the summer.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 6:41:00 PM

Sounds like you convinced yourself, Forrest. Don't buy a Volt. Keep buying that gasoline.
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 6:32:49 PM

I can do this all day long...

Things You Should Also Know About the Volt:
1. To achieve extended range, you shouldn't run the heater or AC.
2. You also need to pay an extra $1000 to install the plug-in charger in your home.
3. On cold days, battery capacity diminishes and you have to rely on the gas engine more often.

WHAT!?! Yeah, it sounds like a real bargain.

------------------------

(This article is my favorite.)

The Great Chevy Volt Hybrid Mishap Explained
October 11, 2010 By Joe Wiesenfelder

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2010/10/the-great-chevy-volt-hybrid-mishap-explained.html



[Edited by: forresj at 12/3/2013 6:32:31 PM EST]
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 5:51:15 PM

And the hits just keeps on coming...

------------------------

October 13, 2010, 1:30 PM
Chevy’s Volt: Is It A Pure Electric Car Or A Hybrid?
http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2010/10/13/chevys-volt-is-it-a-pure-electric-car-or-a-hybrid/

*******

Oh, I particularly like the following statement from the same article. In conclusion, it means that whatever Chevolet told you is false. Too bad.

"...NOTE: An earlier version of the story said the Volt's gasoline engine isn't mechanically connected to the drive train. In fact Chevrolet recently revealed the engine can help drive the wheels through a system of gears in certain high-speed driving conditions]..."



[Edited by: forresj at 12/3/2013 5:55:58 PM EST]
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 5:40:48 PM

Wow, the truth hurts....

------------------------

2013 Chevrolet Volt review: Plug-in hybrid still not worth the premium price
http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/latest-reviews/2013-chevrolet-volt-review-plug-in-hybrid-worth-premium-price-article-1.1401011

[Edited by: forresj at 12/3/2013 5:40:40 PM EST]
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 5:23:17 PM

Maybe it's just you who can't read?

[Edited by: forresj at 12/3/2013 5:30:29 PM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 2:19:02 PM

Gee, which do I believe, my operator manuals or Wiki?

Wiki has it wrong on several points. The volt is powered by a single electric motor developing 270 ftlbs of torque, connected to a transmission. If you want to drive that car 40 miles without the gasoline engine turning over once, the driver has that option. So, far daily commutes, that car never has to run on gasoline.
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 11:02:43 AM

"...The reason Chevrolet did not tell people that is because the gasoline engine does not charge the battery. It is also not connected to the wheels. The gasoline engine powers the 3 phase electric motor and accessories..."

-------------------------------------------------

WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Stop fooling yourself and making excuses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt

The drivetrain permits the Volt to operate as a pure battery electric vehicle until its battery capacity has been depleted to a defined level, at which time it commences to operate as a series hybrid design where the gasoline engine drives the generator, which keeps the battery at minimum level charge and provides power to the electric motors. The full charge of the battery is replenished only by loading it on the electrical grid.

While in this series mode at higher speeds and loads, (typically above 30 miles per hour (48 km/h) at light to moderate loads) the gasoline engine can engage mechanically to the output from the transmission and assist both electric motors to drive the wheels, in which case the Volt operates as a power-split or series-parallel hybrid. After its all-electric range has been depleted, at speeds between 30 to 70 miles per hour (48 to 110 km/h), the Volt is programmed to select the most efficient drive mode, which improves performance and boosts high-speed efficiency by 10 to 15 percent.[17][65]

[Edited by: forresj at 12/3/2013 11:05:19 AM EST]
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 11:00:26 AM

"Zippy, you didn't use your pencil correctly. It cost 3 cents a mile to drive on electrify and 10 to 30 cents on gasoline. Batteries last for 100,000 miles and may be warranted for that period. tell me again which one is more expensive."

30 cents per mile for gasoline would be for something getting about 12mpg, which isn't realistic when comparing to an electric car; an electric Suburban maybe, but they don't exist, so let's compare apples to apples. 10 cents per mile is about right for a gasser of comparable size to the EVs available (35mpg).

If you have to pay even $5000 more for the EV vs. a comparable gasser, the difference in the car payment is more than the difference in fuel costs. Since the cost premium for an EV is between $8000 and $10,000, the gasser is cheaper even before factoring in the battery replacement. (I used a 5 year auto loan at 4%, 1000 miles a month, 30 mpg and gas at $3.50 for the gasser, and $0.03/mile for electricity)

Expand the comparison to 10 years and factor in the battery replacement at 100,000 miles and the gasser is still more economical.
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OilerFan
Champion Author Tulsa

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 7:45:44 AM

THat "every 5 years" statement regarding batteries is wrong. I know that for a fact.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 6:56:14 AM

Zippy, you didn't use your pencil correctly. It cost 3 cents a mile to drive on electrify and 10 to 30 cents on gasoline. Batteries last for 100,000 miles and may be warranted for that period. tell me again which one is more expensive.
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zippy3231
Champion Author Jacksonville

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2013 5:17:19 AM

although Electric Vehicle may cost less at start when one has to replace the batteries every 5 years at a cost of $5,000-$6,000 the savings are lost.
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2013 9:26:23 PM

"Tesla is the only true electric vehicle. The Volt is not an EV either. The volt is a hybrid too. Chevolet didn't tell you that there's a small gasoline engine to charge the battery and extend its range. The small gasoline engine also provide some drive to the wheels. "

The reason Chevrolet did not tell people that is because the gasoline engine does not charge the battery. It is also not connected to the wheels. The gasoline engine powers the 3 phase electric motor and accessories.

The Volt has several modes of operation. It can be set to prevent the engine from starting, only run for comfort accessories (air cond), or for power assist, such as passing on the expressway.

Even in the comfort and performance settings, the engine will only start in extreme conditions or situations.

[Edited by: SoylentGrain at 12/2/2013 9:29:13 PM EST]
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2013 10:58:38 AM

Tesla is the only true electric vehicle. The Volt is not an EV either. The volt is a hybrid too. Chevolet didn't tell you that there's a small gasoline engine to charge the battery and extend its range. The small gasoline engine also provide some drive to the wheels.

[Edited by: forresj at 12/1/2013 10:58:53 AM EST]
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2013 12:34:36 AM

"Lithium batteries do have their limitations but they are not the only choice for cars. Some Prius' used for taxi have over 300K miles on their original battery packs which are made of nickel-metal-hydride­."

But a Prius is a hybrid, not an EV, no matter the lazy non-thinkers lump them together.

A Prius hybrid will toggle between full charge rate and full discharge rate perhaps every 10 seconds. The battery SOC rarely makes big changes. The Prius battery end of life only occurs when cells fall out of balance with others. Not based on capacity of the battery. Many have removed and tested 200k mile Prius traction batteries from perfectly working Prii and found less than 25% of the original capacity. Yet MPG was same with old as with new full capacity.

Took years after the Prius first came out before "I'm going to make mine better" hackers finally gave up on the preconceived notion they could increase MPG with more and more batteries. They filled trunks with batteries. And couldn't get one iota of better MPG.

Then there is the EV. Battery only discharges in use but for some regeneration charging. Battery is cycled deeper than a Prius hybrid resulting in more wear.

Lithium chemistries are preferred these days because energy density is greater than NiMH.
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ny10
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2013 12:12:55 AM

i wouldn't recommend a electric car now. i think gas is better at the moment
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rick_evans
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Nov 19, 2013 5:37:46 PM

I wait for the early adopters and for the Einsteinian breakthrough in battery tech.
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dontuknowOH
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2013 12:05:48 PM

HotRod10 You are absolutely correct on trains being very fuel efficient that is why I mentioned steel rolling on steel. The Still..... part is not a large but small portion of other resistance forces that are only a minor hinderence for train powered transport.

You must of just grabbed at the wrong conclusion, to my post.... I wasn't knocking the R/R as being un-efficient at all.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2013 11:11:29 AM

"If one is talking trains where steel runs on steel, then weight has less affect but still aerodynamics/gravity/friction/shear bulk becomes an energy eater along with speed."

Haven't you seen the CSX ads? Trains "move a ton of freight 423 miles on a single gallon" of diesel. Trains are very fuel efficient.
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fet297
Rookie Author Harrisburg

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Message Posted: Nov 11, 2013 5:05:18 PM

I have a VOLT. I have a ICE vehicle also. I enjoy them both. 14k on the Volt. Been to the dealership twice. Once for a flat tire repair, once for a state required inspection/tire rotation. My ICE vehicle has been to the dealership twice. Once for a warranty repair, once for state required inspection and LOF/tire rotation = 13k miles.

I have driven both cars from PA to Green Bay WI. Neither car has caught on fire. Time will tell how the Volt will hold up. So far the Volt has exceeded my expectations.

[Edited by: fet297 at 11/11/2013 5:05:48 PM EST]
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dontuknowOH
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2013 1:41:06 PM

I don't have any facts to present, but from past experience I have learned that to keep up with todays travel pace of highway travel using gas powered vehicles.....

The larger/heavier will definitely require more HP energy to navigate, the design/bulk/weight/loads then determine greatly the cost to propel those vehicles. Once rolling along a given amount of energy is shared whether electric on gas powered referring to road surface terrain.

If one is talking trains where steel runs on steel, then weight has less affect but still aerodynamics/gravity/friction/shear bulk becomes an energy eater along with speed.

I just think the total cost of ownership of either gas or electric or hybrid over a long time period is not that much different, instead the rest being, usage/mileage/maintenance, the extra higher being newest technology based on positive results......MYOP.....
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2013 12:35:35 PM

"a sucker born everyday. soylent, you didn't learn anything from the previous posts."You assume too much. You never did pencil out the battery replacement, did you?
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2013 11:55:19 AM

a sucker born everyday. soylent, you didn't learn anything from the previous posts.

[Edited by: forresj at 11/10/2013 11:57:54 AM EST]
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2013 10:24:41 AM

"When will people realize that conservation is the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to save gas and money. Technology came too late and has not progressed enough to make a difference."

What are you talking about? Not driving or driving 2,000 pound cars?

Not driving is not productive. Driving small cars to "conserve" fuel increases the risk of death in an accident.

The electric cars are not necessarily small. Small is not just size, it's also weight. The Chevrolet Volt weighs 3,800 pounds. That's in the upper range of "larger" cars like the Chevrolet Malibu at 3,400 pounds.

Driving a Malibu 37 miles takes a gallon and a half of fuel. The volt takes zero gasoline and $0.25 to $0.50 of electricity. If you cram yourself onto a 2,000 pound deathtrap that delivers 35 mpg city, you still burn a gallon of fuel. Seems like the electric cars are already "making a difference".
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2013 10:20:35 AM

jimmy544, like I said, conservation is the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to save gas and money.
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jimmy544
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2013 10:03:03 AM

Electric cars are coming because we have to move on from fossil fuels. Electric cars or cars with electric transmissions will replace fossil fuel cars because one day there will not be enough oil to go around. Electric cars are inherently superior in efficiency and will be much cheaper to operate especially so as fuel becomes more expensive. Electric cars run at 80-95% efficiencys as opposed to IC engined cars where the efficiencies are likely to be 10-30% and that does not count the regenerative braking on the electric cars.

There has been some fires lately with electric cars but in my life I have seen a lot of gasoline cars burn up. No one talks about that. Ever seen a gasoline car burn up? There is a lot less to go wrong and need maintenance.
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2013 9:40:02 AM

When will people realize that conservation is the quickest, cheapest and easiest way to save gas and money. Technology came too late and has not progressed enough to make a difference.

How many years would you need to keep you electric car to recoup the cost of replacing a battery pack? Think about it.


[Edited by: forresj at 11/10/2013 9:43:45 AM EST]
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2013 2:36:59 PM

Lithium batteries do have their limitations but they are not the only choice for cars. Some Prius' used for taxi have over 300K miles on their original battery packs which are made of nickel-metal-hydride­.

OTOH, it does seem as if we're making progress on the critical fronts of EV development: 1) battery longevity, 2) vehicle range; 3) recharge time, and 4) vehicle cost.

What we need as well is a common form factor battery that allows cars to change out batteries not only as a refuel measure but also as a means of upgrading battery type.

Lithium-ion Battery Service Life
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lyanMI
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2013 10:04:51 AM

Battery packs need more advancements
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2013 8:34:36 AM

One important factor that should be considered too. Rechargable lithium atteries don't last forever. I would guess that rechargable lithium batteries last for 5 years before you need to replace them. Find out how much it costs (including labor costs) to replace or change the batteries. It's my guess that it's very expensive.
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MertieMan
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2013 10:07:13 AM

Recharge times and range plus the initial costs of the EVs are a main concern of mine.
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stonejd
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2013 10:01:54 AM

I have both... my prius; however, not a speed demon is a beast at the gas mileage. 50+
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SoylentGrain
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2013 9:45:04 AM

"However, having run the numbers, I have serious doubts about the supposed cost savings. "

We just acquired a Volt. We use trucks and ful frame SUVs. These are needed for business. The savings in fuel almost pays for the lease. My wife uses the volt for her comet and errands. In addition we are saving miles on the other cars.

There is no question they can pencil out. Fuel for my wife's trip to work with the volt is $0.42 a day. Same trip in the Tahoe is over $4.
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GLM4205
Champion Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2013 5:47:54 AM

Well I have paid attention to electric cars....
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 8:58:46 AM

Make sure to consider the price of an elecric car, how long it would take for you to recoup the higher initial cost and how long you will keep the car. You may be eligible for a government incentive. Likewise, check if you have adequate electric charging stations in your area.
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Camry05
All-Star Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 5:43:54 AM

Considering I drive less than 20 miles a day, I could live with electric and could rent a car for the 1 or 2 road trips a year.
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MertieMan
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Nov 5, 2013 4:33:01 AM

If you are referring to the Tesla fire, that was an accident where the driver ran over something and pierced something electric, not really the cars fault.
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2013 6:31:42 PM

I'm not sure what "news" you've been watching, but I haven't seen anything recently that makes me question the safety of EVs.

However, having run the numbers, I have serious doubts about the supposed cost savings. If you're considering an EV based on the assumption that they're cheaper, you may want to do some math on the initial costs (vehicle cost premium, charging station, rewiring to accommodate the charging station, etc.), and the fuel cost savings. Check with your local utility to see what you'll be paying for electricity, especially if you have tiered electrical rates. Also, be sure to consider the limitations on range and the availability of charging locations.

From what I've read, almost all the people who have done the math and still bought an EV did it for one of two reasons: 1) They want to use domestic energy rather than imported oil. 2) They want access to the carpool lanes for their commute without having to carpool.
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