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Author Topic: Getting Better Mileage is not Allowed in the US Back to Topics
Bill100

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Grand Rapids

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 11:54:04 AM

An amazing video I saw this morning. In Europe, you can commonly find cars which get 50-70+ mpg with diesel engines. These are not allowed to be sold or imported into the US. Some of the assembly is even done here in the US, according to this video, and I have no reason to doubt that. Why is it not allowed here in the US? Simply put, the reason is taxes. Fuel taxes are the biggest source of paying for road maintenance, and if people got much better mileage with their vehicles, tax revenue would go down dramatically.

Unless this story is bogus, we all need to scream about this. The government keeps insisting manufacturers make cars which get increasingly better mileage. But they already do, and they're not being allowed to sell them in the US. It's unfair! We already have planned obsolescence when it comes to road maintenance. Now we have to forgo better mileage just because politicians don't want to upset people by talking about new forms of taxation. Like that would be something new for them.

Video here.

[Edited by: Bill100 at 3/23/2013 11:58:36 AM EST]
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sagnat
Champion Author Riverside

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Message Posted: May 9, 2013 4:52:05 AM

While they do have some vehicle that get far better mileage than models sold in the US, some of the difference could also be due to the use of Imperial Gallons rather than US gallons or litres. An Imperial Gallon will post MPG considerably higher than a US gallon
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: May 8, 2013 3:50:12 PM

HYEGLENN writes: Dammed if we do or dammed if we don't.
______
Nonsense. We're making steady progress in getting more miles per gallon. The challenges are difficult because we have to balance safety, fuel efficiency, emissions and convenience and that's not easy to do.
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hyeglenn
Champion Author Fresno

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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2013 7:15:52 AM

Dammed if we do or dammed if we don't.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Apr 22, 2013 11:02:52 AM

WANDA127 writes: They have had the technology for a long time to get better fuel mileage but our government(through taxes)& the oil industry are greedy & wants to get as much money as possible out of us.
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Possibly the new CAFE standards have escaped your attention?

According to Wikepedia: On December 19, 2007, President George W. Bush sign[ed] the Energy Independence and Security Act, which set a goal for the national fuel economy standard of 35 miles per gallon (mpg) by 2020. This would increase the fuel economy standards by 40 percent and save the United States billions of gallons of fuel.

This bill was signed due to the pressures exerted by the Democratic-controlled Congress and overwhelming support by the American electorate.

And have "they" had the technology for a long time? Sorry, most of the advances we're seeing are the result of advances in metallurgy, electronics and safety technologies. American cars and trucks have never been so close to cutting-edge development.

It is a completely false assumption that the government wants us to drive more miles because they will get more revenue. First of all, the federal revenue from the sale of fuel has not been increased for many years and the tax percentage of the total price of fuel has been declining over the years while the cost of maintaining our roads has increased. Generally, the LESS we drive, the less the roads will need maintaining so the government actually saves when we drive less. Moreover, when we drive less, we have to import less oil and that helps keep our negative balance of trade down. Lowering the negative balance of trade has a huge impact on the state of our economy. Obviously, too, when people drive less, auto emissions also decrease.

One would do well to expand one's news gathering. Fox News is more of a propaganda outlet than an objective news organization.
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Sneakers55
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2013 11:20:21 AM

Diesel fuel is taxed more heavily than gasoline in the US.
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Wanda127
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 9:09:38 PM

They have had the technology for a long time to get better fuel mileage but our government(through taxes)& the oil industry are greedy & wants to get as much money as possible out of us.
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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 18, 2013 5:48:03 PM

Coming soon..........Chevy Cruze diesel at EPA estimated 46 mpg. Wouldn't surprise me if you could squeeze 50+ mpg with careful driving.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Apr 15, 2013 2:06:03 PM

STREETIRSX writes: . . . it's all about taxes and revenue from the sale of gas that the politicians don't allow those engines/vehicles to be sold in the US as it would cost a huge economic impact and lost of revenue..
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This sounds like more right wing babble to me. You have any objective sources on which to base your contention?
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priver
All-Star Author Alberta

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Message Posted: Apr 13, 2013 6:13:33 AM

true..
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ricebike
Champion Author New Jersey

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 3:34:57 AM

too bad you can't import them w/out paying out of your ass in taxes and custom fees
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streetirsx
All-Star Author North Dakota

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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2013 12:44:01 AM

Youn are right. Honda Civic Deisel sold in the UK with a 1.6L Diesel engine gets about 78 mpg imperial which converts to about 65 mpg US. The technology is there already for better fuel economy and yes it's all about taxes and revenue from the sale of gas that the politicians don't allow those engines/vehicles to be sold in the US as it would cost a huge economic impact and lost of revenue..
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Scottishmist87
Rookie Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 6:47:49 PM

Baloney, My 2012 VW-Passat Turbo-Diesel made in USA gets 44 MPG at 75 to 80 miles an hour. Its unbelievable and still gets 38 MPG around town. This is the best car I have ever owned.
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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2013 5:36:16 PM

Here's that link to diesels sold in the U.S.

Diesels in the U.S.
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oilpan4
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 11:49:14 AM

Now are they talking Imperial gallons or U.S. gallons?

Whats the difference?
IMPGs figures are about 25% higher than U.S.MPGs.

No its not bogus. VWs in the U.S. with the diesel engine have no problem getting over 40mpg in factory configuration.
If you calculate that milage using imperial gallons now all of a sudden you now have a 50mpg car and you have done nothing but measure the fuel volume differently.
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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 10:58:56 AM

Here's the diesel vehicles available or soon to be available:

Audi
BMW
Chevy Cruze
Jeep
Mazda
Mercedes Benz
Volkswagen

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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 10:41:07 AM

Duplicate

[Edited by: gvan at 4/9/2013 10:43:24 AM EST]
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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 10:41:04 AM

Duplicate

[Edited by: gvan at 4/9/2013 10:44:05 AM EST]
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gvan
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 10:41:03 AM

Diesel cars being sold, or will be sold in the U.S.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1065440_our-guide-to-every-2012-clean-diesel-car-on-sale-in-the-u-sDiesel cars

LINK DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE WORKING

[Edited by: gvan at 4/9/2013 10:45:00 AM EST]
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jrfan6767
All-Star Author Kansas

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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2013 8:32:45 AM

a lot of the newer cars are getting much better gas mileage.
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StArrow68
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 7:52:37 AM

The market gets what it wants. When there is demand, the market will fill it. Right now most folks want something safe with reasonable mpg. The future will be interesting.
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 7:42:00 AM

No miracles here. It's a tiny diesel engine that gets diesel engine mileage. It generates just over 100 hp so it wouldn't sell in any serious numbers to our marketplace.

We have years to go and many gas price hikes to swallow before these tiny engines get any buy in on this continent.
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giwan
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 1:00:55 AM

Thank the EPA and their control on emissions
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2013 8:32:17 PM

One poster writes: The guy in the video is correct that there is such a thing as a blue motion TDI and that in it's 3 configurations all of them get over 70 MPG highway. He is also correct that this engine is not available in the US.

We do not know why this engine is not available in the US, I do not really care myself but if you are interested enough maybe you should go ask your local VW dealer about it.
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First there is a substantial difference in price, about $2200 between a VW like the Passat SE as opposed to th Passat SE with a TDI Clean Diesel as one example. That's enough that it will take a long time to recoup the extra expenditure in gas savings especially given the large differential in price between diesel and gasoline. Around my town, diesels is about 60+ cents over gasoline. Moreover, though I couldn't find the maintenance schedule on the TDI Clean Diesel, my guess is that the maintenance cost may be higher because of the more complex emissions system.

Secondly, it is a capital mistake to look at fuel efficiency as a basis for a purchase decision. It is far better to look at the overall cost per mile and in most cases, I suspect the gasser will be better than the diesel.

Third, while the European diesel mentioned above may get 70 MPG, are we sure that figure is NOT derived from an Imperial gallon? An Imperial gallon is about 20% more than a US gallon.

Fourth, as a matter of public policy, we care more about lower emissions than we do fuel efficiency. This is wise because dirty air is a threat to public health and the cleaner the air, the less pressure on our health care system. The cleaner the engine, the more the driver confines the cost of operation to him/herself.

[Edited by: Houckster at 4/4/2013 8:39:46 PM EST]
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the1roadhog
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 29, 2013 8:21:43 AM

Different strokes...
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 28, 2013 7:43:28 PM

One poster writes: Heck, why not mandate 100 mpg CAFE. Shazam!
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This will be done. It is probable that the car will not derive all its fuel from gasoline. Hybrids will probably see continuing improvements in battery technology and gasoline will be used less and less frequently to power the car. The Ford Fusion is a case in point.
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dasAuto
Champion Author Saskatchewan

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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 10:31:12 PM

Why would automakers import vehicles or build vehicles in North America that achieve higher MPG when North American consumers continue to buy big gas-guzzling SUVs, trucks, etc... There is no incentive to do so.

As for the argument that US vehicles are heavier because they provide more protection, that is total bogus. European cars today are among the safest in the world. After all, who pioneered seat-belts, airbags, and ABS for example? Exactly, European manufacturer Volvo. So please come up with a better argument for heavier vehicles than that bogus claim.

North Americans love their gas-suckers. Then they gripe about high fueling costs. Can't have your cake and eat it too folks.
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cheapmonkee
Champion Author Portland

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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 10:01:51 PM

Heck, why not mandate 100 mpg CAFE. Shazam!
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 2:40:06 PM

BIGHORNE1 writes: We should have two dollars a gallon max at the pumps, since we export alot of our oil, instead of import. Greed keeps it this way.
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Dream on. Go find us a country that will sell us oil at $10 barrel.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 2:37:32 PM

There is more to a car than fuel efficiency. There's also safety. Much of the additional weight of American cars is due to providing protection for people in a crash. Given the attention span and skill level of American drivers, this is a wise move.

I suspect it would be a very serious mistake to assume that European cars would sell well over here. The driving environment of Europe is much different than our own. It would be very interesting to see what a European would drive over here where the distances between points is usually much greater and the where the speeds on some of our highways would severely challenge many of the leading fuel efficiency European cars.
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rick_evans
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Mar 26, 2013 9:50:25 AM

1. It would be nice if youtube documentarians learned to use horizontal mode.

2. Plug-in hybrids(i.e. Toyota) and electrics are available in the U.S.

3. The talker glosses over the amount or type of pollution per gallon
allowed in Europe vs here.

4. The current administration managed to do what previous admins from Bush
to Clinton to Bush have either opposed or failed to accomplish i.e.
doubling CAFE standard.

5. People should worry more about so called open road toll collection than
gas taxes. With gas taxes anyone who uses gas pays. Cheating is already
rampant at Fastlane barriers. Some states are already pushing through
gas tax increases.

6. The no gas electric car problem is easily solved by requiring an annual
usage fee for registration.



[Edited by: rick_evans at 3/26/2013 9:55:37 AM EST]
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Jayburt
All-Star Author Toledo

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 1:52:19 PM

Because big oil rules the country, see what many members of congress are invested in
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metalhat73
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 1:05:56 PM

Egos and body mass of Americans prevent them from fitting in these 70mpg diesel cars. :(
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BigHorne1
Champion Author Missouri

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 9:01:52 AM

We should have two dollars a gallon max at the pumps, since we export alot of our oil, instead of import. Greed keeps it this way.
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MertieMan
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Mar 25, 2013 5:02:10 AM

With our low miles per gallon vehicles we need cheaper prices then.
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PassmyGas
All-Star Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 6:31:23 PM

In Europe and the rest of the world, the automobile is getting a better gas mileage. We're getting screwed.
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OceanArcher
Champion Author Mississippi

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Message Posted: Mar 24, 2013 1:38:07 PM

Yes, those cars are built here, but they cannot pass the licensing laws and regulations the US has slapped on the driving public
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mnrick041
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 8:04:39 PM

The guy in the video is correct that there is such a thing as a blue motion TDI and that in it's 3 configurations all of them get over 70 MPG highway. He is also correct that this engine is not available in the US.

We do not know why this engine is not available in the US, I do not really care myself but if you are interested enough maybe you should go ask your local VW dealer about it.
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Alcoman
Champion Author Albany

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 7:35:53 PM

Other factors about gas mileage is the fact our cars are getting heavier all the time from both increased safety standards and more EPA regulations.
I once owned a 87 Plymouth which weighed less than 2000 pounds and got 35 mpg on highway without even trying.
Now I own a 2012 Dodge Avenger that weighs about 3,400 pounds and gets about 30 MPG.
A diesel in this car would probably boost mpg to about 50 mpg.
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Houckster
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 3:20:31 PM

The story is either wrong or bogus. It is also the opinion of one person who has not looked at the larger picture.

Have you looked at the CAFE schedule for the coming years? Ask the OEMs whether the government is frustrating efforts to get more MPG out of their cars.

The bottom line is that the government does not tax fuel to make a profit. They simply tax to try to cover the costs of maintaining the roads. The federal fuel tax has not been raised since 1993 and at this time is 18.4 per gallon for gasoline and 24.4 cents for diesel. The revenues don't come close to covering the total cost of maintaining the US highway system.

According to an article in Wikipedia: The federal gas tax has experienced a cumulative loss in purchasing power of 33 percent since 1993. An increase of 10ยข/gal would bring approximately $20 billion of annual revenue into the Highway Trust Fund.

At present, revenues from the the fuel tax cover about 56% of maintenance costs. Financing Maintenance on the Interstate Highway System

Let's all chip in and send the person who created this video a fire extinguisher so he can put out the fire on his pants.

Next time BILL100, do a little checking first because when a person start spouting off like this guy did, you should have a VERY BIG reason to doubt the comments.

[Edited by: Houckster at 3/23/2013 3:25:23 PM EST]
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streetirsx
All-Star Author North Dakota

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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2013 2:07:46 PM

It all comes down to tax money, more MPG per car means less tax per gallon sold because they are more efficient it comes down to politics and money, which surely huts the American customer.
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