JasTheAce
All-Star Author
Raleigh
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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 5:04:03 PM
it might if you kept it 20 years, but then we'll be flying by then... on hydrogen
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Jeff1226
Sophomore Author
Flint
Posts:127
Points:8,075
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Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 8:00:24 AM
No
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traffic cop
Champion Author
Boston
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Message Posted: Dec 27, 2012 1:15:43 PM
Very good points, Houckster. We disagree elsewhere, but I'm on board with you on hybrids.*
Now retired, I'm driving taxi part-time in Boston. I rent a cab ($95/12-hour shift) from a guy who has 6 Camry hybrids. It's great driving all night and having to put out only $5-10 for the shift's fuel.
They're driven hard, and are well over 100K on 1-2 year-old cars.
They're holding up very well. Last night (I drive aggressively, still miss the Crown Vics!) and got 48.5 mpg. As I've noticed on much earlier posts, he says the hybrid drive means his brakes last well over 100K, a benefit not often "penciled in."
With their increase on the roads, more shops will gain the skill sets so you won't be restricted to high-hourly-rate dealers.
Elsewhere I called myself "a hardened cynic," but I've sure softened here.
*My exception is that I regard (point 3) "global warming" --which was once "impending ice age" and is now "global climate change" --as a bunch of hooey. It benefits shrewd financial insiders and makes eco-idealogues feel self-righteous.
[Edited by: traffic cop at 12/27/2012 1:19:17 PM EST]
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jonjon57
Champion Author
Raleigh
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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2012 10:06:47 PM
No
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Houckster
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Dec 22, 2012 5:58:50 PM
As to the longevity of hybrid car batteries, we have this: How long do these batteries last?
"Penciling out" a proper decision require evaluating more than just the cost of the vehicle over the 8-10 year life span. Of course if you're perfectly happy with a compact or subcompact, then the hybrid advantage is less obvious but if you're looking for a midsize car which is the most popular type of car for Americans, a hybrid is a worthy choice. The hybrid premium is repaid more quickly the more miles one drives.
1) As the article points out, hybrid batteries are routinely going over 300K miles. That's more than most people will drive and other parts of the car will wear out sooner than the battery. Also these batteries are composed of numerous cells that can be individually replaced.
2) Let's say that there's a disaster of some kind, whether by act of terrorism or of Mother Nature and gas is hard to get whatever the price. Which car would you rather have? One that gets 25-30 or one that gets 40+ MPG?
3) Every time we burn a gallon of fuel, we release the CO2 that has been sequestered for millions of years. There is no technology that can address this issue yet. If you car about the environmental conditions we're facing, then a car that burns as little fuel as possible is the the wise choice.
4) Gas is an uncertain commodity, the price as we have all seen can very substantially for even the most absurd reasons. A hybrid protects your wallet by keeping the CPM down much better than a standard car can.
As for myself, if I were in the market for a midsize car, I'd buy a hybrid without question.
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WEB0153
All-Star Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 9:00:16 AM
No
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jonjon57
Champion Author
Raleigh
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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 7:38:05 AM
No
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steffy628
Champion Author
Pennsylvania
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 10:39:51 AM
No
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the1roadhog
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 8:43:20 AM
Long wait..good luck with that.
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IAMCANADIAN73
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 6:36:57 AM
No
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RalphHightower
Champion Author
South Carolina
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Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 6:08:29 AM
no
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Z12
Champion Author
Toledo
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 7:55:09 PM
No
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:27:38 AM
"and who would want to buy a 6 year old or older hybrid knowing that the battery will need to be replaced in the near future for the price of a new engine?"
Yet another misinformed person who knows not of what they speak...
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lyanMI
Veteran Author
Detroit
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:16:02 AM
Nop
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weddy11
Champion Author
Phoenix
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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:00:17 AM
does not appear to be cost effective, and who would want to buy a 6 year old or older hybrid knowing that the battery will need to be replaced in the near future for the price of a new engine?
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dgsteven
All-Star Author
Los Angeles
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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2012 3:13:58 AM
not really
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traffic cop
Champion Author
Boston
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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2012 6:23:26 PM
Bell30012, do you know why they don't sell many Priuses in Alabama?
"--cause you can't mount a decent gun rack in the rear window!"
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Bell30012
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2012 5:54:02 AM
Really? My 2011 Toyota Prius didn't cost me any more than a comparably equipped vehicle. I have driven it 30k miles this year getting 49.3 mpg over the year.
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traffic cop
Champion Author
Boston
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 10:03:46 PM
SanchoNY has some good points: Used (under 2 years, I'd say) and cash.
A friend of mine has six Boston cabs, all Camry Hybrids. He says he gets over 100K miles between brake jobs, and the insurance is a lot cheaper.
Something to pencil in.
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13Octane
Champion Author
Tucson
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 9:28:36 PM
no
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weddy11
Champion Author
Phoenix
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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 1:42:55 PM
No
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SanchoNY
Rookie Author
New York
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2012 9:48:36 PM
If you buy it brand new and finance the car it will take a looong time for you to start actually recouping your costs. If you buy it used (in good condition) and pay for it cash depending on how long you keep it, it may workout money wise sooner rather than later.
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jonjon57
Champion Author
Raleigh
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Message Posted: Dec 15, 2012 9:27:31 PM
No
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ultimate
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 6:29:03 AM
no
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RalphHightower
Champion Author
South Carolina
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Joined:May 2011
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Message Posted: Dec 10, 2012 5:43:55 AM
no
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bearscharger
Champion Author
Cleveland
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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 11:51:26 PM
no
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bulbash73
Rookie Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 8:51:18 PM
Well repencil that again . I think it does pays off
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skidsteer85xt
Champion Author
Indiana
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Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:18:08 PM
nope
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pilotmass
Champion Author
Boston
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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 1:21:02 PM
No economic reason to buy a hybrid.
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WEDDY
Champion Author
Phoenix
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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 8:44:45 AM
Not me. Not cost effective yet.
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weddy11
Champion Author
Phoenix
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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:11:59 AM
Not me, not cost effective.
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traffic cop
Champion Author
Boston
Posts:1,239
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Joined:Oct 2004
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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 10:55:59 AM
"We priced a replacement at the dealer - $3,300 installed, but there are others that will install for cheaper." (SuziLew, 11/30,below)
That's encouraging. What we're not "penciling in" is that as these become more common, other suppliers will enter the market, and competition will bring prices down. All this does complicate things, of course. Various non-dealer shops and after-market products will be better than others, and owners will have to do their research.
Let's just remember that all this is contrived and being made necessary by an anti-hydrocarbon administration and their corporate cronies!
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cayo32
Rookie Author
Toronto
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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 2:29:00 PM
nope
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lyanMI
Veteran Author
Detroit
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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 1:54:22 PM
Not yet.
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SuziLew
All-Star Author
California
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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 11:25:28 AM
We bought a used hybrid about 3 years ago. The battery is now 10 years old and still doing fine. We priced a replacement at the dealer - $3,300 installed, but there are others that will install for cheaper.
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Bell30012
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 9:43:55 AM
Everyone talking about the high cost of a battery replacement in a hybrid should research what it costs to replace the battery in the 2000-2006 Honda Insight. Honda has been selling hybrids longer than anyone else in the USA. Toyota Prius came out a year later. You can now replace one of these batteries for $2500 - $3500. Of course, the car gets 60 mpg and uses regular gasoline. There were only 60k made and yet I'm seeing them all the time.
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WEPSMAN
Champion Author
South Dakota
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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 9:43:52 AM
I agree. It does not pencil out. If you figure mileage gain and the price you have to give for the car, you are usually better off keeping what you have.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Nov 30, 2012 9:20:14 AM
"Hybrids are expensive to buy. If something goes wrong with the battery that would add up to another $9000"
Wow! Yet another uninformed opinion expressed....
Batteries for hybrids don't cost anywhere near $9000. Plus they are very unlikely to go bad. Your statement is comparable to saying "Conventional cars are expensive to buy. If something goes wrong with the engine that would add up to another $9000"...
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cools1611
Rookie Author
Providence
Posts:80
Points:185,165
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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 7:09:31 PM
Hybrids are expensive to buy. If something goes wrong with the battery that would add up to another $9000.
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okeerob
Rookie Author
Florida
Posts:52
Points:435,855
Joined:May 2011
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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 5:51:06 PM
RE: Battery Life and Warranties - Assume that battery life is a normally distributed phenonmenon (a bell-shaped curve), and the companies warrant them for 100K miles. Also assume that the companies don''t want to pay off on very many of those batteries failing before warranty period runs out, say 1 or 2 percent, but it could be even less than that. So then the vast majority of those batteries must last well over the warranted 100K. It's all understood better if you understand statistics. Shying away from buying a hybrid just because of a hefty price tag on battery replacement isn't straight thinking. Most folks will have traded off the vehicle for other reasons long before the the battery fails.
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kxy4fw
Champion Author
Denver
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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 1:53:29 PM
no
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traffic cop
Champion Author
Boston
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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 1:06:23 PM
First off, I'm a global warming skeptic and a hybrid car agnostic. Now retired, I drive taxi part-time and the taxi owner I lease from has six hybrid Camrys, and is very pleased with them.
But we're still dealing with new technology, Houkster, which is complicated by the presence of political manipulation, rather than market imperatives. Inside parties with political power get favorable treatment, such as tax subsidies, which artificially skew what really works, or doesn't.
The only way to really make these things work, and pay off, is to get the government out of the business, and let investors and consumers decide which battery is a good bet. Failing that, you get disasters like the Fiskar: subsidized by the taxpayer, the company decided to make them in Finland, and the battery becomes a brick when depleted. This happened to the left-leaning Consumer Union testing staff!
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Skyjunky
Veteran Author
Portland
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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 12:50:49 PM
I have to agree with HOUCKSTER the cost is just not there ...My neighbor has one and he gets 25 miles on the battery "on flat ground" the rest of the way it is all gas ...Plus the batteries just do not last and they ae veery expensive
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hrspwr77
Champion Author
Georgia
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Message Posted: Nov 29, 2012 12:44:13 PM
No
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Houckster
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 12:41:42 PM
The fears on the longevity of hybrid batteries are groundless. These things have been tested to death and they work. Put yourself in the place of an OEM facing the prospect of thousands of people placing warranty claims on the batteries that have failed and it adds up to one thing, the OEMs wouldn't tolerate it. Well, there's Honda that either is facing or has faced a class action suit concerning poor quality batteries but that appears to be the exception rather than the rule.
Hybrid batteries are deep-cycle batteries that are not damaged when fully depleted as normal batteries are and the car's battery management software protects the batteries so they will work for the life of the car and beyond. Most batteries are warranted for 8-10 years and 100K miles.
Facts About Hybrid Car Batteries
The odds are that with reliable batteries, the CPM of a hybrid will be substantially less than a conventional car and the hybrid premium will be paid off. How quickly this happens is a function of the price of gas and the number of miles driven.
If I were in the car market, I'd have no qualms about buying a 2013 Ford Fusion hybrid.
[Edited by: Houckster at 11/28/2012 12:46:28 PM EST]
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weddy11
Champion Author
Phoenix
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Message Posted: Nov 28, 2012 8:52:01 AM
Not me
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wshokie12
Champion Author
Winston-Salem
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Message Posted: Nov 27, 2012 12:31:10 AM
not me
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the1roadhog
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:45:42 AM
Not in the cards forme.
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IAMCANADIAN73
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:18:43 AM
Not me
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IAMCANADIAN73
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 7:18:36 AM
Nope
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