Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    6:24 PM

Message Forum - Read Message

Category: Fuel Economy > Topics Add to favorite topics   Post new topicPost New Topic
Author Topic: Why can't the U.S. have fuel efficient cars like Europe has? Back to Topics
EVH_1984

Champion Author
Massachusetts

Posts:1,063
Points:459,350
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Jan 25, 2011 6:55:43 PM

Why is it that we can't have small cars with engines under 2 liters like Europe does? We also can't have diesel vehicles like Europe has. I read it's because their cars won't meet U.S. emission standards. One amazing thing is that some 6 cylinder diesel cars that Europe has get better mileage than some 4 cylinder gasoline cars! How can cars that get better mileage not be considered Eco friendly in the U.S?
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
GLM4205
Champion Author Toledo

Posts:6,239
Points:1,302,815
Joined:Dec 2010
Message Posted: Dec 30, 2012 2:36:20 PM

It's a perplexing question. WHy is it that other parts of the world can have vehicles we can't have.
Profile Pic
Jeff1226
Sophomore Author Flint

Posts:127
Points:8,100
Joined:Feb 2012
Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 7:43:12 AM

We could if that was what we wanted
Profile Pic
vulcan96
Champion Author Ohio

Posts:27,181
Points:3,133,135
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 5:28:21 AM

don't over look government interference
Profile Pic
dgsteven
Champion Author Los Angeles

Posts:3,290
Points:782,575
Joined:Oct 2012
Message Posted: Dec 29, 2012 3:10:21 AM

bigger size of the car, heavy of the curb weight
Profile Pic
golfer7332
Sophomore Author Toronto

Posts:213
Points:89,930
Joined:Oct 2012
Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 10:53:38 PM

I wonder about this for a while. IMO, its purely supply and demand. We want cheaper car and even cheaper gas. So the oil co. and car makers complies. Would you want gas at 2x the price(though cleaner and higher octane). cars that cost 50% higher but better engineered and built. No, we want to change cars every four years and custom options that we can choose and pick to our hearts content. In Europe, you have three or four trim to choose and thats it. Another words, you get what you paid for.
North American didnt get the more advance European diesel engines until the last 5-6 years because of the poorer diesel(sulphur) fuel we had. The gas or petro in Europe is of better quality than here therefore for the same size engines they can have higher compression. The 1.8litr Ford Mondeo I drove in UK then easily hit 100mph with room to spare. When i drove the 2.3l ford contour which was derived from Mondeo when it was first introduce in NA, i was so disgusted with its performance and wallowy ride that I didnt look at another north american car for a decade.
Profile Pic
E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

Posts:3,371
Points:950,230
Joined:Feb 2005
Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 5:37:01 PM

Well, that is a reasonable question to ask. I think that its mainly for three reasons:

1. Many of the smaller, lighter cars manufactured in Europe do not meet US road safety standards. The manufacturers don't bother to make them comply with emission regulations, since they couldn't be sold anyway.

2. Many of the higher mileage European models use diesel engines. While European manufacturers have figured out how to meet US emission regulations, they are aware that US environmental policy is decidely anti-diesel, and unless they are willing to persist, its easier to just skip them.

3. Because fuel taxes (and, hence fuel prices) are lower here than in Europe, the public demand for the highest mileage cars is less here than there. Also, since US drivers have less experience with the higher mileage diesel engines, many are unwilling to purchase a diesel engined vehicle. It also doesn't help that in the US, taxes on diesel are generally higher than gasoline. (See number 1 above).

BTW, quite a few cars sold here in America do have engines smaller than two liters, but not many as small as one liter or less.
Profile Pic
JasTheAce
Champion Author Raleigh

Posts:3,402
Points:745,210
Joined:Nov 2012
Message Posted: Dec 28, 2012 5:06:34 PM

we're too spread out
Profile Pic
jack4141
Champion Author Alabama

Posts:3,950
Points:888,630
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Dec 25, 2012 1:18:31 AM

Yeah
Profile Pic
traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

Posts:2,962
Points:1,059,575
Joined:Oct 2004
Message Posted: Dec 24, 2012 3:13:59 PM

Here's an article on the Euro-spec Ford Focus ST:

WSJ Ford Focus

(If the link fails, go to WSJ.com and search "Ford Focus."

It is a six-speed manual turbo-charge 2.0L putting out 252HP. 23/32/26 mpg. Looks like a lot of fun, with even hotter versions, now available only in Europe, getting groomed for the North American market.

Need article, and it discusses the business dynamics behind their marketing.

As soon as I well my screenplay, I'm buying one!
Profile Pic
ber5
All-Star Author Chicago

Posts:664
Points:132,445
Joined:Sep 2012
Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 5:44:16 PM

because we want the zoom, zoom, suv's... had a jeep driving like he was in nascar race dradting (tailgating) and trying to move up one car length cutting off people left and right.

(I am not cutting suv's or Jeep drivers,)...
Profile Pic
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:11,856
Points:173,165
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 3:28:30 PM

Plenty of Fiat 500s in the showroom for anyone who wants a true European car. Likewise Smarts, plenty of those for sale, in stock, as we speak.
Profile Pic
playtimeCLE
Champion Author Cleveland

Posts:10,991
Points:2,110,340
Joined:Nov 2008
Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 12:21:05 PM

Their gas is more expensive then ours is.
Profile Pic
OilerFan
Champion Author Tulsa

Posts:16,308
Points:2,899,515
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 16, 2012 12:14:53 PM

It's a perplexing question. WHy is it that other parts of the world can have vehicles we can't have.
Profile Pic
traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

Posts:2,962
Points:1,059,575
Joined:Oct 2004
Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 7:21:02 PM

shockjock1961, I've had trouble with the hotlink window. Try this: go to bloomberg.com and search this title, "wealthy americns queue to give up their passports" (05/01/12), and "US millionaires told to go away as tax evasion rule looms" (05/08/12).

in the NY Post, "US citizens leaving the country to avoid stiff tax bills" (06/25/12).

And Denise Rich is the covergirl for this.

I didn't say it's a "mass exodus," but there has been a significant uptick, which INDICATES that the rich don't see the USA as hospitable to their interests. I want to emphasize, shockjock, money (especially investment $$) goes where it is treated well. Easily located on the net are legitimate articles of what everybody, middle-class to so-called 1%-ers, are doing to best position themselves regarding the anticipated tax hikes.

007Hollywood, these kind of "super-high-mileage but never sold to the public" stories have been around for generations. Please be skeptical. Ford would dominate the auto market if they had such a thing.
Profile Pic
gvan
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:25,111
Points:3,410,865
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 14, 2012 12:52:25 PM

"Did you know that Ford has had technology sitting on the shelf for years, that allows a full sized SUV get 40+ miles to the gallon?"

I would like to see some proof of this before I believe it. If they have the technology, maybe it is so expensive that consumers would reject it.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,573
Points:2,756,615
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 9:57:15 AM

Traffic Cop, neither of your links went anywhere. I'm still waiting for you to show me who of the elite are fleeing America...

People come and leave the country all the time. I've yet to see or read about a mass exit of the wealthy...
Profile Pic
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:11,856
Points:173,165
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 9:31:28 AM

QUOTE :::Did you know that Ford has had technology sitting on the shelf for years, that allows a full sized SUV get 40+ miles to the gallon? :::


I see, so Ford deliberately choose NOT to sell a product that would make money for the company. Ford purposely choose to give up making zillions of dollars.
Profile Pic
007hollywood
Rookie Author Huntsville

Posts:5
Points:323,660
Joined:Dec 2012
Message Posted: Dec 13, 2012 12:48:49 AM

Why can't we simply have any diesel fuel efficient vehicles like in Europe? The American auto market is driven by public outcry. When Americans didn't want an American rust bucket any more like was produced through the mid 70's to the late 80's, they stopped buying American cars and bought Japanese. American auto makers finally realized they would have to produce something better than the Vega or Pinto before people would trust the American car market again. Now Americans have a taste of what is available and isn't so keen on jumping back to "American Made" whatever that means any more. Did you know that Ford has had technology sitting on the shelf for years, that allows a full sized SUV get 40+ miles to the gallon? Why do you think that has been sitting there for so long? Did Ford know that the day would come when the American public would demand to get better fuel economy from their hulking beasts? Hmmmmm.... I wonder!? Not!



[Edited by: 007hollywood at 12/13/2012 12:52:24 AM EST]
Profile Pic
traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

Posts:2,962
Points:1,059,575
Joined:Oct 2004
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 9:46:26 PM

Shockjock1961, here are a few tidbits for you to check out.

NY Post reports a doubling of citizen exits

That was dated June 2012. I would expect this to increase. Also:

Bloomberg report on USA ex-patriots

Count Denise Rich among them. She got her "estranged" ex-husband, Marc Rich, a pardon from Bill Clinton at the end of his term. He was guilty of international money laundering. Pure quid-pro-quo.

There is an economics adage, shockjock61, "Money goes where it is treated well." You spend YOUR money where you get good value for it. Same with the ultra-rich. They just won't be spending it...here.
Profile Pic
sagnat
Champion Author Riverside

Posts:1,915
Points:817,680
Joined:Jun 2012
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 9:13:18 PM

My car has a 2.0L turbo charged diesel. Not sure smaller than 2.0L would be appropriate for the US market but 2.0L is just fine. I have no trouble getting to speed and keeping with the flow while netting nearly 50 MPG.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,573
Points:2,756,615
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 8:52:01 PM

"With Obama re-elected, there are increasing reports of the financial elite renouncing their US citizenship and leaving...very quietly."

Since there are "reports" perhaps you could share them... It would be interesting to who of the elite are leaving...
Profile Pic
mnrick041
Champion Author Twin Cities

Posts:17,470
Points:1,944,335
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 7:20:45 PM

We have diesel engine cars here, you can get one if you want one. A car with a engine under 2 liters? They are out there but I would not want one and I do not think very many other people would either.
Profile Pic
traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

Posts:2,962
Points:1,059,575
Joined:Oct 2004
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 6:07:39 PM

Shockjock1961, France would love to have you.

Seeing as their wealth-producers are fleeing Hollande's high tax rates.

When Bush was elected, the "elite" bragged how they were going to leave America. But they didn't.

With Obama re-elected, there are increasing reports of the financial elite renouncing their US citizenship and leaving...very quietly.

These are your role models, shockhock1961!!
Profile Pic
13Octane
Champion Author Tucson

Posts:2,147
Points:332,165
Joined:Aug 2005
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 5:56:26 PM

hmm... good question
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,573
Points:2,756,615
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Dec 12, 2012 9:10:11 AM

"Why is it assumed that the European way is the best way?"

Well for one, of the 5 best places to live in the world, not one is in the US, and 3 are in Europe...

The World’s Best Places To Live

Europe must e doing something right...

[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 12/12/2012 9:11:40 AM EST]
Profile Pic
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:11,856
Points:173,165
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:09:08 PM

Why is it assumed that the European way is the best way? When in fact the Euro's are some of the most screwed up countries on the planet? Even the Euros' aren't happy with their state of affairs.

My British cousins came here to visit for years and loved the American cars, homes, kitchens, bathrooms, shopping, and our backyard pool ( unheard of in London). They were gap jawed the first time they sat in my 4 door full size sedan. Loved it.

They loved it here so much they finally left the UK and are now happy citizens of the USA.


I hosted an Irish bicyclist this past summer. He was highly impressed by my town, the highway system, the malls, and the lifestyle here. No doubt he'll be thinking about leaving Derry Ireland and coming here.

Fuel efficient cars? well they may be what is driven on the continent but that doesn't mean the people want them.
Profile Pic
traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

Posts:2,962
Points:1,059,575
Joined:Oct 2004
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 1:32:56 PM

People buy efficient cars in Europe because gas prices are abnormally high there.

They are abnormally high there because they are excessively taxed.

They are excessively taxed because they have to pay for expensive healthcare and welfare programs.

We have an administration that believes in/hypes the global warming hoax and is against hydrocarbon fuels. Our President wants to expand government spending to shrewd insiders, eco-idealogues, "healthcare," and politically loyal (read "welfare") constituencies.

(Read my post of Dec. 1, below.)

Our gas prices will go up.

Americans will want more efficient cars, and manufacturers will provide them.

Just like Europe.

[Edited by: traffic cop at 12/11/2012 1:35:01 PM EST]
Profile Pic
SuziLew
All-Star Author California

Posts:537
Points:332,445
Joined:Jul 2010
Message Posted: Dec 11, 2012 11:30:20 AM

Our car manufacturers say they make cars that Americans buy. Most Americans must still think bigger is better.
Profile Pic
skidsteer85xt
Champion Author Indiana

Posts:10,615
Points:761,050
Joined:Oct 2012
Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:59:05 PM

we could no doubt.
Profile Pic
IAMCANADIAN73
Champion Author Ontario

Posts:4,855
Points:1,688,525
Joined:Apr 2008
Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 6:26:25 AM

Who really knows?!
Profile Pic
MertieMan
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:17,279
Points:3,471,760
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 5:12:56 AM

We do have fuel efficient cars, shop around. You seem to forget that we have at least a barrel of pollution control systems on each vehicle now, thereby cutting down fuel milage.
Profile Pic
gvan
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:25,111
Points:3,410,865
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 2:10:55 PM

How about the 2014 Ford Fiesta? The new 2014 Ford Fiesta on sale next year will have a turbo-charged 1.0-liter engine with just three cylinders. Though the car has not yet undergone EPA testing, it is expected to be certified as the most fuel-efficient non-hybrid car available in the United States. The tiny one-liter makes 123 horsepower and 148 foot pound of torque — compared with 120 horsepower and 110 pound-feet of torque in the current base 1.6 liter four-cylinder.
Profile Pic
gvan
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:25,111
Points:3,410,865
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 1:55:25 PM

Just read the Mazda 6, Cadillac ATS AND the Chevy Cruze will offer a diesel. A bit discouraging to read that a VW Passat diesel costs $7,000 more than a gas model though and cost effectiveness is more than five years.
Profile Pic
gvan
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:25,111
Points:3,410,865
Joined:Dec 2004
Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 1:30:04 PM

There are some here and more will be coming to meet the 2025 mpg requirements of 54.5 mpg. BTW, watch for the 2013 Chevy Cruze diesel. That will be a test of how the consumer feels about diesels.
Profile Pic
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:11,856
Points:173,165
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 12:27:02 PM

Feel free to buy a Smart Car or a Fiat 500. Both readily available in the US.
Profile Pic
traffic cop
Champion Author Boston

Posts:2,962
Points:1,059,575
Joined:Oct 2004
Message Posted: Dec 1, 2012 11:14:25 AM

European gas prices have been historically much higher than US because of the artificial method of high taxes. This contrived burden of cost forces people to prefer smaller, high-mileage engines, and their auto industry responded accordingly.

American prices are going up higher because of artificial market manipulation and EPA-enforced mileage standards ("CAFE"). Yeah, I'm a conspiracy nut here, but just wait and see: they'll go up higher yet, forcing people (and manufacturers) to respond.

They use "global freezing" (oops, I mean "global warming," no, it's now "global climate change") to justify all this. Steven Chu, Obama's Dept. of Energy secretary, has said, outright, his goal is to make American gas prices "more in line" with European.

We're being played for fools.
Profile Pic
bearscharger
Champion Author Cleveland

Posts:3,726
Points:842,240
Joined:Aug 2012
Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 6:02:10 PM

most people don't like small cars
Profile Pic
ranger2k
Champion Author St. Louis

Posts:1,112
Points:159,085
Joined:Sep 2005
Message Posted: Nov 26, 2012 3:41:06 PM

not American style
Profile Pic
MIT05
Champion Author Massachusetts

Posts:6,374
Points:1,951,145
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: May 2, 2011 5:22:42 PM

we do but most just drive what ever.
Profile Pic
the1roadhog
Champion Author Atlanta

Posts:11,526
Points:2,603,230
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: May 2, 2011 1:37:23 PM

why? Most Americans are too fat. Sad but true.
Profile Pic
MrGooglyMoogly
Rookie Author Naples

Posts:75
Points:20,515
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: May 2, 2011 11:56:54 AM

Simply put, Americans won't buy them. Nor will we buy a excessively slow car. Europe is not America, and a 1.0L car going 0-60 in 16 seconds is of no interest here. That is all.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,573
Points:2,756,615
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: May 2, 2011 9:05:30 AM

"Your posts have been one long stream of personal insults, poison, and catty remarks. No discussion or debate. Dismissive and snarky comments without a shred of logical argument"

That sounds like you are describing your very own posts Hemond...
Profile Pic
reb4
Champion Author Chicago

Posts:24,024
Points:2,398,100
Joined:Sep 2004
Message Posted: May 1, 2011 8:14:27 PM

as price of gas goes up, the fuel efficiency will increase.

EPA will not go away, too many people believe they do good.

Americans do not want to give up the ability to haul all their stuff in the car...
Profile Pic
CactusBobs
Champion Author Arizona

Posts:4,242
Points:881,130
Joined:Jun 2010
Message Posted: May 1, 2011 5:57:01 PM

PLEASE LEARN ABOUT THE EPA . there is no balance there the small motors used in cars all over the world just can't come here because the EPA says so. Personal mobility is bad . so the more restrictions that can be put on it the better . make cars more expensive and there will be fewer of them ......understand MAN is BAD for mother earth and a USA born MAN is the worst MAN of all ........THE EPA MUST GO , CUT FUNDING NOW !
Profile Pic
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:11,856
Points:173,165
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: May 1, 2011 2:48:37 PM

<<<<Too bad this is not one of those cases.>>>
.
.
Your posts have been one long stream of personal insults, poison, and catty remarks. No discussion or debate. Dismissive and snarky comments without a shred of logical argument.
Profile Pic
Bell30012
Champion Author Atlanta

Posts:4,527
Points:692,610
Joined:Aug 2004
Message Posted: May 1, 2011 7:50:35 AM

I've lived in Europe (NL and D). From what I've seen, I'd say that a few of the reasons would be our emissions requirements here in the USA and our safety standards. Our vehicles are heavier than European models due to different glass requirement, door crossbar framing, etc. Many friends of mine would purchase a Mercedes at a great rate but then find out how much the conversion would be to bring it to the USA and meet specs.
Profile Pic
Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

Posts:23,573
Points:2,756,615
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Apr 30, 2011 2:49:32 PM

Too bad this is not one of those cases.
Profile Pic
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:11,856
Points:173,165
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Apr 30, 2011 1:43:40 PM

<<<Yep, the truth, rather then the mindless talking points that you put out...>>>
.
.
When people are losing arguments , they resort to personal insults, never seen it fail.
Profile Pic
Hemond
Champion Author Providence

Posts:11,856
Points:173,165
Joined:Oct 2006
Message Posted: Apr 30, 2011 1:40:45 PM

<<<<When I was in NYC last week I saw not a single Smart Car, which surprised me given how crowded Manhattan is and how hard it is to find a parking space. I thought they'd be the height of cool there, but none anywhere except in the dealership showroom.>>>
.
.
The height of cool? You mean the height of dorkdum. The Smart is decidedly UNcool. New Yorkers are used to setting fashion trends. The lack of Smartcars is an indicator that they are not cool.
.
.
As for finding a parking space. This is part of the culture. You avoid bringing a car into NYC, not because its hard to drive,(actually no different than any city) but it is challenging to park. A Smart car would have just as much trouble finding a spot.

I either take the bus, or park in the suburbs and hop on a commuter train. At night or on weekends I'd drive in and not think twice about parking.

Profile Pic
nrthbycivic
All-Star Author Ontario

Posts:906
Points:129,155
Joined:Feb 2011
Message Posted: Apr 30, 2011 9:33:34 AM

Please forgive my ignorance but isn't a 1.8 liter engine smaller than the 2 liter engine mentioned? I suppose it comes down to choice.
Post a reply Back to Topics