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hyrax

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New Jersey

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Message Posted: May 13, 2009 1:49:59 PM

Avoid Long Idles
If you anticipate being stopped for more than 1 minute, shut off the car. Restarting the car uses less fuel than letting it idle for this time.

Wouldn't this put a lot of wear and tear on the starter? Would newer cars be more resistant to wear to warrant doing this?
REPLIES (newest first) Topic is locked
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HotRod10
Champion Author Wyoming

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Message Posted: Oct 4, 2013 1:37:38 PM

Perfectly identical posts from figleaf and brazillianguy claiming a 2 mpg increase from shifting into neutral at red lights? Either something's fishy or these two spend way too much time at red lights and need to find a different route to get around.

In order to see a 2mpg change just from shifting into neutral, you'd have to spend more time idling at red lights than you do driving. Idling in neutral just isn't that much different than idling in drive, certainly not enough to offset a transmission rebuild when the shift linkage and clutches wear out prematurely.

Or trade it in for a stick shift. It'll get better mileage all the time and it's always in neutral whenever you stop.

[Edited by: HotRod10 at 10/4/2013 1:38:26 PM EST]
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brazilianguy
Sophomore Author Orlando

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Message Posted: Sep 26, 2013 9:44:45 AM

I shift to neutral at red lights. I've noticed at least a 2 MPG increase.
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GrumpyCat
Champion Author Alabama

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2013 10:26:49 AM

Acetone is in all gasoline. Always has been.
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Retired-Coastie
Champion Author Arkansas

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Message Posted: Sep 24, 2013 10:00:48 AM

The other issue that I have not seen mentioned is the time it takes to start your vehicle and put it into drive when the light turns green. The truck behind you will likely push you through the intersection.
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2009 4:09:31 PM

pinbuster2005 -- Are you making reference to the garbage you put out? I am not the only one that responds that way to it.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2009 3:57:23 PM

no airduct it's more like you just read what you want to read.
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2009 10:34:09 AM

PB..... I did read your entire post. The only problem is you have a tendency to ramble and waffle so much a lot gets lost in that reading.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Dec 19, 2009 2:46:18 AM

airduct - I said right in the first post when I compared the fuel pumps in the two pick-ups that I didn't use acetone in my ranger because we weren't using ethanol back then. We didn't start getting ethanol blended gas untill 2005 and I bought my 2001 f-150 brand new in september of 2001. What you need to do is read the whole post.
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2009 3:47:20 PM

PB.... After the fact you are now saying you were not using acetone in your Ranger. Please tell me and the others why you brought up acetone when making reference to a failure with the vehicles FP. Are we supposed to guess? Its difficult enough to believe what you say as it is.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2009 3:36:35 PM

airduct - Yes i do know it wasn't acetone that made the fuel pump go after only 65,000 miles in my ranger because i wasn't using acetone at that time. the one in my f-150 that went after over 200,000 miles and only acetone was used in it for 89,000 of those miles. Prove the acetone made it go and not the ethanol that was in the gas for the same period of time.
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2009 3:29:46 PM

PB->What I'm saying is that you can't blame acetone for that fuel pump going so soon either.

Neither you nor your mechanic know if this is true.
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bby
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Dec 18, 2009 11:01:11 AM

For any non mechanical part, its true that either it works for life or goes bad for no apparent reason! That's flip side of using more sophiticated gadgetry... you never know when its going to fail and mostly cant determine why either!
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Dec 17, 2009 6:29:09 AM

airduct - "PB-->Sure 89,000 miles is a long time using it.

Low concentrations over a long period of time.

>But in my 1995 ranger the fuel pump went at 65,000 miles and never had acetone in it explain that!

You cannot blame ethanol for this one either."

Never said I was. What I'm saying is that you can't blame acetone for that fuel pump going so soon either. I agree with the mechanic that replaced the fuel pump in the ranger that said "With electrical parts like that you never know how long they will last. One might work for the life of the automobile and the next one might only work for 60,000 miles"

dontuknowOH - "STARTERS? My story,in driving 53 yrs.mostly pre-owned vehicles,except for three bought new,I've had only two starter failures.Both were trucks, one @(156,000 mi. weak starter motor)The other @(18,000 mi. shorted starter) replaced Free by dealership."

I've only had to replace one starter in the automobiles i've owned and that was in my 2001 f-150 that I bought brand new. I replaced it about a month before I traded it in for the 2000 F-150 I have now. But anyway that starter got replaced after 232,000 miles it was starting to get a dead spot in it. Thank god that truck was a standard and I could pop the clutch to start it so I could get it to the garage go get it fixed. I always shut my automobiles down when I parked at a store or what ever.


[Edited by: pinbuster2005 at 12/17/2009 6:32:28 AM EST]
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Slick3065
Veteran Author Pennsylvania

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Message Posted: Dec 16, 2009 6:25:57 AM

I agree that there would be more wear and tear on the starter to justify ovoiding a one miute idle.
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Eyebee
Champion Author San Bernardino

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2009 9:23:25 AM

I too, shift to neutral at red lights. I do it more for the saving of wear and tear on the transmission over time, than for the fuel economy I must admit.

Some years ago, when I worked for a bus company the senior engineer at my depot told me that if all bus drivers shifted to neutral at a bus stop, and in stationery traffic, the company would save enough money to give everyone an extra 3% raise.
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dontuknowOH
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 4, 2009 6:40:57 AM

I agree Figleaf; many late model Vehicles Idle Speed is controlled by the ECU. The ECU reads the Engines R.P.M. and Detects when the drive mode is selected,as engine speed drops because the trans/converter is engaged into drive. Within seconds the ECU makes the necessary fuel/air ratio damands to correct the Idle Speed to programed specs. This is done to prevent Stalling of the engine.

Most other Loads that the Engine must deal with at Idle Speeds go un noticed by the driver because they are Automaticly Controlled; (turning as with parking)> the power steering unit,altenator load,applying power brakes,A/C on,cooling fans, the list goes on ETC.

When the modern engine does all this correctly to please the Driver habits there must be extra Energy used. Laws of Nature/Physics Prevail!

Some extra engine loads are out of the range of the ECU control, for example. Start a 4 cyl.vehicle, hold the accelarator pedal steady with the R.P.M. AT ABOUT 2500-2800, Then at the Same Time, Turn On the A/C,headlamps,brake lights,rear defrosters,If you can? WATCH THE TACH R.P.M. DROP because of.... Most large V8 AND V6 ENGINES are not as noticeable to load down,(TUFFER) The 2500-3000 R.P.M. RANGE is close to 60 M.P.H. but @ many less HP/torgue lbs. being produced in neutral/park.
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dontuknowOH
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Nov 3, 2009 9:15:19 AM

STARTERS? My story,in driving 53 yrs.mostly pre-owned vehicles,except for three bought new,I've had only two starter failures.Both were trucks, one @(156,000 mi. weak starter motor)The other @(18,000 mi. shorted starter) replaced Free by dealership.

One other incident,a nine year old vehicle -35,000 mi.(bought for the Big Block/drive train components)failed to crank fast enough to start, only because the original bat. cables were copper anodized strands of aluminum)which were losing? conductivity?.Replaced both with #1 copper which corrected the problem.

The best thing I did to my every-day Driver Work Vehicle was I doubled up the O.E.M. cables with #1 copper cables. Both positive & ground. Now With a good cond starter/battery, that old BEAST WHIRLS OVER FASTER THAN A SKUNK CAN PEE! No I didn't double up the solenoid relay,didn't seem to need to Yet....But....? HAGD LOL
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bethanyCT
Rookie Author Connecticut

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2009 2:33:12 PM

No, i don't think the starter will be harmed...if anything, it will save you gas and lessen the air pollution, not to mention the fact that it will help avoid the engine overheating if left idling too long..
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Figleaf
Rookie Author Louisville

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Message Posted: Oct 24, 2009 9:38:02 AM

I shift to neutral at red lights. I've noticed at least a 2 MPG increase.
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2009 9:37:07 AM

PB-->Sure 89,000 miles is a long time using it.

Low concentrations over a long period of time.

>But in my 1995 ranger the fuel pump went at 65,000 miles and never had acetone in it explain that!

You cannot blame ethanol for this one either.



[Edited by: airduct at 10/22/2009 9:37:40 AM EST]
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2009 4:50:49 AM

aj - At the banks I find it faster just to park and go inside. Many times I have drove into the lot right behind someone that went to the drive-up window when i've parked and gone inside. 99% of the time I end up leaving the bank before they even get up to the window. Personally I think the drive up window should only be for the handicapped or someone with kids and that is it. It shouldn't be for the lazy people that just don't want to walk 150 feet to go inside.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2009 4:39:00 AM

airduct - You don't know if acetone helped in the failure of my fuel pump or not. Sure 89,000 miles is a long time using it. But in my 1995 ranger the fuel pump went at 65,000 miles and never had acetone in it explain that! You can't no more than I can. But at such a small consentration I would have my doubts. Maybe the ethanol had something to do with it's failure? After all it's had ethanol run through it for the last 118,408 miles that is about half the time i've owned the truck.
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ajhoier
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Oct 21, 2009 2:16:05 PM

think it's easier to just shift into neutral. Either way, you gotta shift; either to neutral, or to park; to shut it off.

I personally avoid drive throughs. Sure there may only be one car ahead of you, but you never know what the hell they are ordering (like kids meals for a whole team of soccer kiddies in the soccer mum's SUV).

And hell, ya never know who you may run into when you actually go into the store :)
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2009 6:20:46 PM

You have no idea if acetone helped the failure or not. 89,925 is a lot of miles with the stuff in it.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Oct 13, 2009 7:33:55 AM

airduct - "Ok, but the F150 has been a heavy user of acetone. "

only for the last 89,925 miles. The first 140,500+ it never used acetone. Explain that one. Plus again even the last almost 90,000 miles still beats the one in my 1995 ranger going in 65,000 miles. Again like the dealer mechanic told me when I got the fuel pump replaced in the ranger electrical parts can either last for a very long time 200,000 miles+ like in my f-150 or not last that long 65,000 miles like in my ranger you never know.
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OilerFan
Champion Author Tulsa

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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2009 7:12:24 AM

I turned my engine off in cases where I know there's a long idle. I've done it for years and haven't had a started issue so I wouldn't worry about it.
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Weaslespit
Champion Author Cincinnati

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Message Posted: Oct 9, 2009 4:18:08 PM

"It (starter) is not designed to constantly restarting the vehicle. "

LOL, that is EXACTLY what it is designed to do! Ignorance must be bliss...
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2009 9:23:50 AM

PB ->No because the one in my 1995 ranger never had acetone used in it and it went after 65,000 miles.

Ok, but the F150 has been a heavy user of acetone.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Oct 8, 2009 3:13:12 AM

airduct - "I wonder if that was because of the prolonged acetone use. I have driven many many Ford trucks well beyond the 215K miles you have on yours and have never had an FP go out."

No because the one in my 1995 ranger never had acetone used in it and it went after 65,000 miles. So explain that. It's like I said before with electrical parts like that. You never know how long they will last. Even the dealer mechanic that put the new starter in my ranger said that "most of the electric fuel pumps will last the life of the automobile but some will fail before then you just can never tell"
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2009 4:08:41 PM

Most of the delivery services also try to route their vehicles so the driver only has to make right turns as well..
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GT2er
Champion Author Toronto

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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2009 11:21:32 AM

I, too, avoid long idles. I turn off the engine when I have to wait a few minutes. I've done this in 49 years of driving and have not had a starter failure.

I agree with pinbuster, you cannot be certain how long a starter will last. It's already been mentioned that delivery vans (USPS, Fedex, UPS, etc.) are re-started several times daily -- this would be prohibited if it caused undue starter failure.

I think it's unfortunate that too many drivers idle their engines unnecessarily.
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DieselHogg2
Sophomore Author Riverside

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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2009 9:31:00 AM

what about the aftermarket air filters like k&n
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airduct
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2009 9:17:03 AM

PB->> I had a fuel pump go in my 1995 ford ranger after only 65,000 miles. I replaced the one in my current 2001 f-150 after 215,000 miles.

I wonder if that was because of the prolonged acetone use. I have driven many many Ford trucks well beyond the 215K miles you have on yours and have never had an FP go out.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Oct 7, 2009 8:01:57 AM

The thing with starters just like any other electrical item in an automobile you never know how long it will last. I had a fuel pump go in my 1995 ford ranger after only 65,000 miles. I replaced the one in my current 2001 f-150 after 215,000 miles. I also just replaced the starter this week in it after 229,000 miles. But I'm still going to shut my truck down if I'm going to leave it running for more than a min. By the way if your paying $400 for a starter your getting screwed. Mine only cost after the core refund $175 installed.
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legomyeggroll
Sophomore Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2009 3:49:03 PM

I only shut off my car when in line for gas, when waiting on a train, when in really bad traffic, and... when i actually have to get out. =) anything less than 5 minutes is a waste of time to me.
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ccourt
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Message Posted: Oct 6, 2009 9:40:23 AM

Dumb idea to me.
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ajhoier
Champion Author Florida

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Message Posted: Oct 5, 2009 7:49:25 PM

<< ekelly7 : starters @ about $400, don't think I'll be following the idea >>

Try a local salvage yard, likely find it a LOT cheaper there :) Or even online, rock auto.com is very cheap (even my father said, and he works in the parts business....lol).

This topic comes up a lot. The usual example is FedEx/UPS trucks...lol. Everytime they pull up to a house they cut off their engine, drop off the package, and start it back up....probably 20+ times a day! lol. And they are still running :)@jimsin630:
Turning off the car for a minute or so at a RR crossing likely won't effect this. Most any decent oil filter on the market has a seal on it that holds oil in the filter to aide in lubrication during cold starts like you mention.....but simply shutting your car off for a couple minutes in the drive-thru or railroad crossing isn't really classified as a "cold start".

There will still be oil available in the filter for lubrication when you start up the vehicle.

[Edited by: ajhoier at 10/5/2009 7:51:41 PM EST]
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phippi409
Sophomore Author Quad Cities

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Message Posted: Oct 5, 2009 10:03:34 AM

Only time I shut off my car is when I'll be sitting for several minutes, such as a railroad crossing.
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jimsin630
All-Star Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Sep 13, 2009 12:15:45 AM

the hardest time to start a car is when it's been sitting and is cold. is easier when engine is hot and lubricated. in addition, the battery is fully charged with a surface charge and higher voltage than if it had been sitting and that surface charge had disapated
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sluggopyle
Champion Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Sep 12, 2009 12:21:56 AM

Pmj is exactly wright, too!

I'm also a frequent starter and I think the last time I changed a starter, the President was Richard Nixon.

Think about it - a heavy-duty electric motor that's used for one, at the most two seconds at a time. What are they, made of paper?
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pmjwright2
All-Star Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: Sep 11, 2009 12:17:08 PM

Hey, starters can take the wear and tear. I've been driving 35 years, I frequently keep vehicles until well into their teens, I have driven 3 cars to over 300 K, and I turn off the ignition at train crossings, long lights, drive-thrus etc. In other words, I'm a "frequent starter". I have only had to replace one starter ever--on a 15-year-old F150.

Folks, wearing out your starter just ain't gonna happen!!
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ekelly7
Champion Author Twin Cities

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Message Posted: Sep 6, 2009 8:32:30 AM

starters @ about $400, don't think I'll be following the idea
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PaylessKY
Champion Author Kentucky

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Message Posted: Sep 2, 2009 1:43:52 AM

When you come to a complete stop at a light put it in neutral.
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Minutefan
Champion Author Springfield

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Message Posted: Aug 30, 2009 10:25:05 AM

What pinbuster describes is everybody's business. I don't need lazy people adding pollutants to the air I breathe.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author New Hampshire

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Message Posted: Aug 23, 2009 7:42:31 AM

The thing about idling that makes me laugh is when people let their automobile idle while they go into the C-store to get a paper and a coffee, go to the drive-thru at the bank or fast food joint instead of parking and going inside (most of the time it's faster), or let their automobile run for 20 min summer or winter so the heater or A/C can get the inside to the temp they want it at or so they don't have to scrape the windows. Then those same people complain that they aren't getting the fuel economy out of the automobile that the sticker had on it.

I've got a 2001 Ford F-150 that I bought brand new. I now have 226,000+ miles on it. I shut it off at all stops except red lights & construction unless I know I'll be waiting more than 2 min. I've never replaced the starter in my truck.

[Edited by: pinbuster2005 at 8/23/2009 7:46:59 AM EST]
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sluggopyle
Champion Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2009 11:23:17 PM

If anyone speaks Garblish, can they translate that last post?
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dontuknowOH
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2009 11:14:41 PM

I and a friend many years ago,did this experiment:We fastened a 42 amp gm altanator/with control to a base,then drove it with a 5hp.brig.engine1:1(rather the same speed as the engine R.P.M.s)@ about3600,with governor working.

With an average condition,mediun size battery connected,and charging a bit,we provided a load of two auto starters,running FREE of LOAD,plus two standard older headlamps (on low beam)only,all on for one min.Guess what?

That 5hp engine,(no pun intended),with the load switch on the throttle went wide open,that fiver's tongue was hanging out,R.P.M.'S DOWN TO 300 We called it OUITS HOT..HOT... Point being.Auto alts.require HP Drains? Mmm..
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ans56
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Aug 22, 2009 6:20:16 PM

best way is to not use air conditioner, next inflate tires to max. cut engine off if waiting for 30 sec. or more do not use headlights or powerful stereo
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cv
Champion Author Raleigh

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Message Posted: Aug 4, 2009 7:20:27 AM

Try to keep fast starts and stops at a minimum also.
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Ernman
Champion Author Orlando

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Message Posted: Aug 3, 2009 9:58:46 PM

At long idles, I shut off the AC, thats about it...
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