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Author Topic: Is it within the US automakers abilities to manufacture a reliable 50 MPG car? Back to Topics
PokeyGA

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Georgia

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Message Posted: Jul 11, 2008 12:02:41 AM

This is a challenge to our manufacturers. I am pro USA.
REPLIES (newest first) Topic is locked
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Thumper52
Champion Author New Brunswick

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Message Posted: Jul 2, 2013 5:36:43 AM

Yes
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 8:28:22 PM

QUOTE ::::I don't need to do jumping jacks in my vehicle, so small is just fine::;

Not relevant. But you do need to be able to sit in the front seat without your head hitting the ceiling or get in without your noggin whacking the door frame. (both problems I've had with cars)

Its also nice to not have to get in the car butt first.I have a small car and get in like this, one of the trade offs of a small car. I don't really mind but both my brother and brother in law complain about this. They hate riding in my car.

Its also important to be able to haul good sized objects. A trip to Home Depot is more pleasant if your purchase fits in the trunk or back seat. I hate to rent a truck to carry a room AC home.
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E-Squirrel
Champion Author Orange County

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 8:28:07 PM

Yes, it certainly is. Of course, that is not saying that anybody would necessarily want to buy it.

Few manufacturers have made a car that can qualify as "50 MPG" and still sell well.

Toyota can say that it has, but it has taken a lot of years to get there. When federal law makes anything else impractical to sell, surely they will sell, but not necessarily like by the public.

Current sales indicate that the public would rather have the size than the mileage...
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blckwolf
All-Star Author North Carolina

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 7:17:54 PM

Yes - however, you're going to pay a premium for it!
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carinthuist
Champion Author San Francisco

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 6:55:22 PM

Yes
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BBF_PFS
Champion Author Washington

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 9:45:07 AM

yes
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 9:06:43 AM

Of course they CAN, but most people won't buy them, as most people want the extra features that add weight, which costs gas mileage.
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lyanMI
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 8:54:08 AM

Of course
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: Jul 1, 2013 8:40:41 AM

Of course they can and will as soon as there's a reasonable market for them. The Big is Better crowd still rules the marketplace.
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FrankLee1
All-Star Author Minnesota

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 10:47:19 PM

I don't need to do jumping jacks in my vehicle, so small is just fine. Yeah, very little interest in this topic; for most motorists fuel economy doesn't even crack the Top Ten List of considerations for what they want in a vehicle.
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Hemond
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 1:59:26 PM

Although I like the idea of a 50mpg vehicle, I don't like the type of car one must buy to get there. I like luxury and roominess. I also like a good looking car.

I like small cars but a Corolla is about as small as I'll go in a 4 door. Plus the current batch of electric cars are just too clownish. Other than the Tesla, (or the unfortunate Karma) that is. The Leaf is downright hideous, about as ugly as one could imagine, and pretty much useless for everyday driving.




[Edited by: Hemond at 6/30/2013 2:02:02 PM EST]
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davisadm
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 12:25:13 PM

Yes, Honda, Toyota, or Nissan. They now manufacture cars in the US, so they are US automakers.
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mr_banilla16
Rookie Author Long Island

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 10:07:51 AM

so no one has talked about this since 2011? Anyone else wonder why fuel economy has not improved significantly in the last few years....?
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forresj
Champion Author Wilmington

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 9:53:00 AM

Yes but are you willing to pay for it? That's the real question. Nothing in this life is free. You should realize that.
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majormarket
Champion Author Houston

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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2013 9:47:25 AM

I think the answer is yes.
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the1roadhog
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Jun 9, 2012 7:13:14 AM

It's capable.
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Darlo
All-Star Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: Jun 8, 2012 8:10:48 PM

With my 1991 Ford Festiva LX, I was getting an AVERAGE of 46.2mpg, and had tanks where I got 50+ mpg! (EPA for the Festiva is 33mpg.)

In my 2004 Toyota Echo, I get an average of 41.6mpg, with my highest at around 45mpg. (EPA for the Echo is also 33mpg.)

EPA is ALWAYS lower than what I have gotten in EVERY vehicle I have owned!
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vikings80
All-Star Author South Dakota

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Message Posted: Jun 8, 2012 4:16:36 PM

yes
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BlueberryFocus
All-Star Author Rochester

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Message Posted: May 30, 2012 11:46:04 PM

Yes, they have been manufacturing such vehicles in Europe for years, many the same make and model offered here.
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Minges
Veteran Author Ohio

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Message Posted: May 30, 2012 9:28:35 PM

Yes,But the oil industry won't allow that to happen!
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DarlingDarlin
Rookie Author Cape Coral

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Message Posted: May 30, 2012 7:50:44 PM

It is all about "The Money". So long as they can sell their larger vehicle with lower fuel mileage at higher prices.
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playtimeCLE
Champion Author Cleveland

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Message Posted: May 30, 2012 7:43:57 PM

Not with the EPA around. We had a 50 mpg car in the 80's. Now we don't.
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DarlingDarlin
Rookie Author Cape Coral

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Message Posted: May 30, 2012 6:57:00 PM

Car they capable? YES. Will they? Only when forced to.
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GBHUGVA
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: May 30, 2012 7:41:53 AM

Ford Escape Hybrid is a better built veh. than the Prius, I have one of each, both driven equally. The Ford with 140K miles feels much more solid than the Toy with 103K on it. I don't care who sold more, the Ford wins in our family!
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drydem
Sophomore Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 9:21:40 PM

The BEV Focus, Fusion Hybrid, and C-Max have very good ergonomics and the driver displays can help you drive more efficiently. For comparisons the BEV Focus should be tested along side a Nissan Leaf, the Fusion Hybrid should be tested against the Hyundai Sonata Hybrid or the Toyota Camry Hybrid, the C-Max is designed to compete with the Toyota Prius v(ersatile).


The Ford Escape Hybrids have poor aerodynamics, so so ergonomics and a primitive onboard computer system so its harder to drive optimally for fuel efficiency (you need a scangaugeII). The escape hybrid's ABS brake system doesn't remember diagonistic error codes after you turn it off so an ABS diagonistic scanner with non volatile memory is useful for real time debugging when the ABS system goes on the fritz. Sadly the Ford Escape is a dated design and newer simpler conventional gas hi fuel efficient SUV crossovers like the Mazda CX5 will likely eat the Ford Escape's Lunch next year..
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GBHUGVA
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 4:11:42 PM

YES; All-electric Focus gets official EPA 105 MPGe rating, the Ford Hybrids due out this fall will be in the ballpark.
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gascheddar
Rookie Author Hartford

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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 11:43:56 AM

yes
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Susieq60
All-Star Author Columbus

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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 11:07:17 AM

I am sure they can
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WEDDY
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: May 29, 2012 10:35:39 AM

yes, for many, many years.
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 28, 2012 8:50:37 PM

They can easily match any mileage vehicle built in the world but we wouldn't buy them. The marketplace drives everything so don't blame the Big 3 for not delivering what we won't buy.

When attitudes change, our incredible manufacturers will step up an deliver as they have for a hundred years.
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jonjon57
Champion Author Raleigh

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Message Posted: May 28, 2012 7:33:55 PM

Yes
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 27, 2012 10:56:41 PM

of course you have stated mpg is not getting anything more that 32 MPG (and that is likely generous accounting)...

too bad they are 18MPG short.. Maybe in fall ... 2012?
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GBHUGVA
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: May 27, 2012 10:22:05 PM

Ford Escape Hybrid is a better built veh. than the Prius, I have one of each, both driven equally. The Ford with 140K miles feels much more solid than the Toy with 103K on it. I don't care who sold more, the Ford wins in our family!
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drydem
Sophomore Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 7:25:10 PM

if you get a Battery Powered Electric Vehicle(BEV) like the Nissan Leaf, ignore the MPGe. Since a BEV never use gasoline the MPGe is not a useful operational specification. When you need to estimate the range of a BEV with respect to its battery charge, you need to know the average number of miles that can be driven with the remaining charge in the battery pack which is defined in kilowatt-hours. Both the Ford Focus Electric and the Nissan Leaf averages about 3.1 miles/KwH - about a 60 mile/full charge on a very bad day and about 120 miles/full charge on a good day.

[Edited by: drydem at 5/26/2012 7:25:33 PM EST]
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drydem
Sophomore Author Maryland

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 7:06:32 PM

US automakers Ford and GM both already sell inexpensive +50mpg vehicles in Europe but they just aren't selling them in the USA. It's more profitable to sell SUVs and trucks and they're not required to sell +50 mpg vehicles in the USA so they don't. BTW: European emission standards are tougher than USA emission standards. European safety standards are the same as the USA too. However, European gasoline taxes raise the cost of a gallon of regular gas to $7 to $9 per gallon -- so fuel efficiency is more important to the average driver in europe than in the USA.



[Edited by: drydem at 5/26/2012 7:10:52 PM EST]
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GBHUGVA
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 8:50:23 AM

Questions reb4... Are you an idiot?, slow?, Why are you comparing the 2013 reg. Escape to a Hybrid?, 2013 improved over reg. 2012, you'll have to wait to compare 2012 hybrib to the 2013 C-Max. 2013's come out in the fall as ussual.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 8:50:23 AM

"So, to recap:"

"Made In USA? Check."

Hardly. Check where the parts of your Volt were made. I think you will be surprised whn you see how few of them were made in the US...

"Over 50 MPG? Check."

When it runs on gas it's mpg is about 40 mpg, less then a lot of economy cars...

"Runs on American energy for the most part? Check"

Currently, about 90% of the solar panels sold in the US are made over seas, so even this statement is doubtful...

You forgot to mention that the Volt is so expensive you could buy enough gasoline to drive an normal economy car with an ICE, for the life of the vehicle, so what are you really saving?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 8:45:26 AM

"BTW, the actual cost to me has been zero...solar on my roof puts the electricity in it. (A 3KW system lets you drive 40 miles a day on solar power. The details of Net Metering are too much to go into here.)"

So are you claiming the 3Kw solar array on your house cost you nothing?
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 8:23:39 AM

gbhugva,

you are so naive...

Here is comparison of ford Hybrid Escape and New model Ford Escape... Any questions?

where do you come up with these lies?ANd neither of these vehicles come close to 50MPG!


[Edited by: reb4 at 5/26/2012 8:24:17 AM EST]
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Banjoe
Champion Author Winnipeg

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 8:13:01 AM

No problem at all. The issue isn't mileage as much as it is 'how much do you want to pay to save energy?"

Saving energy at any cost is voodoo economics. Add on the voodoo sciences of global warming and alternate energy sources, and nobody has solid facts to base any real life decisions on (pardon the dangling bit at the end).

Any method to save energy is worth it? Always consume the cheapest energy source regardless of efficiency or environmental impact? Live in a cave and walk everywhere? Your life - your decisions. Just make sure you're not too far under some voodoo spell when making significant choices.
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GBHUGVA
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: May 26, 2012 8:05:17 AM

Yes 2013 Ford/Lincoln this fall!

Ford is also working to develop its own CV transmission for its hybrid vehicles to eliminate the Toyota choke point.

As for the 2013 Ford Escape, it will debut with 3 engine choices and Ford projects up to 5 mpg better fuel economy than the current Escape. So the new model will actually be able to deliver better fuel economy than the older hybrid technology, all at a likely lower cost to consumers.

[L=http://www.insideline.com/ford/escape/2013/text deleted Here[/L]

What's not to like?
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Mike914
Rookie Author San Jose

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Message Posted: May 25, 2012 8:33:19 PM

50MPG? Is that all you want? It's been available for over a year now. Chevy Volt uses so little gas it needs to keep track of how old it is and make you buy a few gallons once a year, just to keep it fresh! Mine just turned 6900 miles, on 1.9 gallons. I've done about 76 miles on those 1.9 gallons, so beating the EPA rating on gas too. Of course, with my rates I pay about 2.5 cents a mile for the electricity as well, so overall cost for my 6900 miles would be $8.27 for the gas and $170 for the electricity. So at $4.00 per gallon my $178.27 would have gotten me less than 45 gallons. If a gas car could go 6900 miles on 45 gallons it would be getting 153MPG. So 50 MPG? Doing better than that daily.

BTW, the actual cost to me has been zero, the dealer put the gas in it, and solar on my roof puts the electricity in it. (A 3KW system lets you drive 40 miles a day on solar power. The details of Net Metering are too much to go into here.)

So, to recap:

Made In USA? Check.
Over 50 MPG? Check.
Runs on American energy for the most part? Check.

Most new cars come with a 10-20K fuel bill attached, Volt is one of the few that give you a choice about where your fuel comes from, and how much you want to pay for it...
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johnchase
All-Star Author Miami

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Message Posted: May 24, 2012 8:53:02 PM

Yes
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Darlo
All-Star Author British Columbia

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Message Posted: May 24, 2012 5:40:18 PM

Idheinz is correct. They are not very accurate. I usually see MUCH higher MPG than the MPG ratings.
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GBHUGVA
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: May 24, 2012 9:30:12 AM

Why is that idheinz?

Elec. is more expensive in Chicago
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ldheinz
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 24, 2012 9:17:57 AM

GBHUGVA - "All-electric Focus gets official EPA 105 MPGe rating"

Yes, but MPGe ratings are a bald-faced lie.
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reb4
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: May 24, 2012 8:15:24 AM

guess they had to work out a few kinks... and really not to serious about selling to many...
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GBHUGVA
Champion Author Virginia Beach

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Message Posted: May 23, 2012 8:27:57 AM

YES; All-electric Focus gets official EPA 105 MPGe rating, the Ford Hybrids due out this fall will be in the ballpark.
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wornoutWV
Sophomore Author West Virginia

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Message Posted: May 22, 2012 3:21:32 AM

"I believe they already do make at least a dozen, they are just not sold in the usa. "

Good point. It's why I ended up buying a diesel VW.
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Change4good
Rookie Author Colorado

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Message Posted: May 21, 2012 9:37:43 PM

YES!
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